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Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

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Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#71

Post by dlahoda »

codedokode wrote: post #28
ingenieroariel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out devenv.sh from the Cachix people, it allows you to list stuff like pip for any language, including services / postgresql extensions: { pkgs, ... }: { services.postgres = { enable = true; package = pkgs.postgresql_15; initialDatabases = [{ name = "mydb"; }]; extensions = extensions: [ extensions.postgis extensions.timescaledb ]; settings.shared_preload_libraries = "timescaledb"; initialScript = "CREATE EXTEN…

Interesting, but the word "containers" is scaring me. I wanted just a simple tool to download and install several libraries and not a full Docker/Kubernetes level system... But it looks like a good choice for running tests in CI.

nix eco has project(s) which instead building full images just plug tiny shim linked into nix store. nix-snapshotter. fast and small. oci images spec allows to do nice thing with nix.

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#72

Post by dlahoda »

Filligree wrote: post #68
aidenn0 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nix the language is untyped; I don't believe Tvix changes this, particularly since it has the goal of supporting all of Nixpkgs.

That’s a pity. IMO the lack of static typing is one of the biggest flaws of the language, and it persistently slows me down.

pure flake nix with nixos modules is strongly statically typed.

in this case typing is evaluation. so tvix promises doing typing faster.

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#73

Post by dlahoda »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #12
vvern wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide some links to some projects? You’ve piqued my interest

https://github.com/majbacka-labs/nixos.fi https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40010991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39720007 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39692801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39658684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39004785 I didn’t find these via HN search, I found them in my bookmarking account. I have a slightly strange way of bookmarking - I send emails to a dedicat…

do you use special email client and host provider for that?

does it work for 10k bmarks?

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#74

Post by piperswe »

codedokode wrote: post #28
ingenieroariel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out devenv.sh from the Cachix people, it allows you to list stuff like pip for any language, including services / postgresql extensions: { pkgs, ... }: { services.postgres = { enable = true; package = pkgs.postgresql_15; initialDatabases = [{ name = "mydb"; }]; extensions = extensions: [ extensions.postgis extensions.timescaledb ]; settings.shared_preload_libraries = "timescaledb"; initialScript = "CREATE EXTEN…

Interesting, but the word "containers" is scaring me. I wanted just a simple tool to download and install several libraries and not a full Docker/Kubernetes level system... But it looks like a good choice for running tests in CI.

devenv has container support if you're looking for it, but you can completely ignore it if (like me) you don't care

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#75

Post by dlahoda »

Rucadi wrote: post #9
flurie wrote: post #8

It's worth noting that tvix explicitly[1] does not support flakes. [1] https://lobste.rs/s/ypwgwp/tvix_we_are_rewriting_nix#c_zvtze...

This seems to be from 2 years ago, a lot of things could have changed. He seemed quite opinionated on flakes, but the only bad thing that I can see to flakes is that you cannot pass args to them, for imo no valid reason, you have to use the file+file protocol and update the inputs each time to have a reasonable way to pass parameters...

override input works well.

asking nix to accept arbitrary args in flakes like asking to so random patch of rust code during compilation. to patch use cargo patch. that is analogy of flakes, when you thing how flakes make nix statically typed.

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#76

Post by nurple »

vvern wrote: post #5
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #3

Maybe worth mentioning rust and performance more prominently as the motivations. Is Nix eating the world? We have seen lots of unbelievable projects using it on HN recently. It feels like anyone serious about complex systems and building software are embracing it. I use it extensively also via nixpkgs, though somehow I have yet to make the leap to full NixOS. One consideration for anyone who hasn’t jumped in, is that…

Can you provide some links to some projects? You’ve piqued my interest

Not super recent, but nix-snapshotter is one that I'd call awesome(but I'm also a k8s fanboi): https://github.com/pdtpartners/nix-snapshotter

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37407758

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#77

Post by alchemist1e9 »

dlahoda wrote: post #73
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/majbacka-labs/nixos.fi https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40010991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39720007 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39692801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39658684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39004785 I didn’t find these via HN search, I found them in my bookmarking account. I have a slightly strange way of bookmarking - I send emails to a dedicat…

do you use special email client and host provider for that? does it work for 10k bmarks?

Nope it’s just a regular email provider with IMAP support. I just send myself an email with the link and optionally some cut and paste content or notes. I have offline backups of all my IMAP accounts also. I find it convenient because I just add that account to whatever mobile or desktop environment and then can use search functionality of email client. It’s a bit silly but it’s worked out ok for me for many years now and yes definitely works for 10k emails of bookmarks, no problem.

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#78

Post by flurie »

adisbladis wrote: post #56
flurie wrote: post #8

It's worth noting that tvix explicitly[1] does not support flakes. [1] https://lobste.rs/s/ypwgwp/tvix_we_are_rewriting_nix#c_zvtze...

Tvix explicitly targets stable Nix features, so supporting Flakes is a non-goal. Many users have a poor understanding of what Flakes _actually_ are: They are a bit of UX glue on top of existing Nix features: - Input/output schemas for `flake.nix` - A lock file format - CLI features to work with the two above It's entirely feasible to build out a Flake user interface & evaluation support on top of Tvix without making…

> Tvix explicitly targets stable Nix features, so supporting Flakes is a non-goal.

Except that it rolls its own CA store[1], which is also not a stable Nix feature. One could argue that it has to roll its own store because Nix wants to own the store, but implementing a shadow version of an experimental feature makes the "they're just targeting stable features" part ring rather hollow.

> The key point of Tvix _not_ having support for Flakes is to not make special snowflake evaluator features that are tied in with it.

That's not really how I read the authors' defense of this choice. It seems like they made it because they disagree with the design decision, and I consider that more defensible than the position you offer. I just wish they would make this information more central, and I will keep posting it in news items about Tvix because no one else is going to. There is no indication that the "Nix" they implement is many years old now, and when they do[2] indicate it, they are vague about why.

[1] https://cs.tvl.fyi/depot/-/blob/tvix/castore/docs/data-model...

[2] https://cs.tvl.fyi/depot/-/blob/tvix/README.md#compatibility

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#79

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #47
Izmaki wrote: post #11

For somebody who hasn't used Nix yet, but heard good things about it, why use Tvix instead of Nix? The page didn't seem to mention the reason(s) behind the project.

I would recommend against using Tvix at this time, but if you are wondering why they wrote it, they wrote an article: https://tvl.fyi/blog/rewriting-nix The goals they list are: > Creating an alternative implementation of Nix that is fully compatible with nixpkgs. No explanation needed. > More efficient Nix language evaluation, leading to greatly increased performance. The Nix language is evaluated whenever doing the…

> A builder implementation using OCI instead of custom sandboxing code.

A complete non-starter, never in a thousand years am I gonna use something that requires a Docker installation for building derivations.

Re: Tvix – A New Implementation of Nix

#80

Post by eviks »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #67
jancsika wrote: post #40

Do you put the hash at the end of the dirname in the store? IIRC, Nix names things like "$unreadable_hash$pkg_name" which makes tab completion impossible in the case someone wants/needs to go spelunking in that directory.

It's my understanding that the ${hash}-${name} order is actually intended to help with tab completion, but from a different direction; if you already know the first couple chars of the hash, you can quickly tab-complete it, instead of using the less-unique name. I mean, I don't think that's the order I would have picked either, but there is logic behind it.

Why would you remember anything from a hash instead of the infinitely more usable name+ version (a more-than-enough-unique combo?
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