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Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

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Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#201

Post by nradov »

wesselbindt wrote: post #195
nradov wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. Cuba has shorter life expectancy than the USA. But beyond basic stuff like immunizations, antibiotics, and trauma care, healthcare has a very small impact on life expectancy anyway. Once you have a serious chronic medical condition, even the most advanced healthcare system can generally only give you a few extra years.

What are you talking about, it's there clear as day, cuba beats the US on life expectancy: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CUB/cub... .

What are you talking about, it's there clear as day, the US beats Cuba on life expectancy:

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#202

Post by nradov »

trust_bt_verify wrote: post #199
nradov wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get a yearly physical. While I do get a few periodic screenings there is no proven benefit to a yearly physical for asymptomatic adults. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK82767/ When I do see a doctor I don't waste time discussing lifestyle choices with them. Doctors have minimal training in that area and it's largely a waste of time. I rely on physicians for medical issues only. There are far better sour…

Well that is quite the charmed perspective on life you have, a specialist for every question available when needed. Many don't have the access you do and a yearly chat with their primary care doctor goes a long way for their health.

You're really missing the point or being intentionally obtuse. The people who are better qualified to provide guidance on lifestyle issues are actually less expensive and more accessible than doctors.

A "yearly chat" with a primary care doctor does little or nothing for the health of asymptomatic adults. Did you even read the article I linked above?

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#203

Post by wesselbindt »

nradov wrote: post #201
wesselbindt wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about, it's there clear as day, cuba beats the US on life expectancy: https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CUB/cub... .

What are you talking about, it's there clear as day, the US beats Cuba on life expectancy: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

> The current life expectancy for Cuba in 2024 is 79.33 years, a 0.19% increase from 2023.

> The current life expectancy for U.S. in 2024 is 79.25 years, a 0.18% increase from 2023.

Regardless of this whole discussion we're having, I'm confused as to how we're both able to come up with such different numbers from the same source. The above are direct quotes from the website we're both looking at.

And then there's this [1] study, which finds that socialized healthcare beats privatized on life expectancy by about 10 years on average. If you don't like life expectancy as a metric, consider [2]. It compares the US to various other developed countries, the primary difference being that the other countries have socialized healthcare. Private health care loses on all but one of a much wider range of metrics.

Your belief that private health care is in some sense better is pure ideology, and has no basis in reality.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CUB/cub...

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/USA/uni...

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9653205/

[2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358397629_Mirror_Mi...

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#204

Post by trust_bt_verify »

nradov wrote: post #202
trust_bt_verify wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that is quite the charmed perspective on life you have, a specialist for every question available when needed. Many don't have the access you do and a yearly chat with their primary care doctor goes a long way for their health.

You're really missing the point or being intentionally obtuse. The people who are better qualified to provide guidance on lifestyle issues are actually less expensive and more accessible than doctors. A "yearly chat" with a primary care doctor does little or nothing for the health of asymptomatic adults. Did you even read the article I linked above?

And you are trying to make this thread into some win for yourself that it is not. My original point was that life is a common goal of all humans on this planet, for life to continue, you need health. The services to keep people healthy should be provided to all citizens of modern societies at a cost that is spread out across all citizens equitably. That is a point you have yet to address.

Please take the win you did achieve, you identified a dietitian is the right person to talk to about your diet, bravo.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#205

Post by antisthenes »

johngladtj wrote: post #167
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is more obvious in reverse: profit is money extracted from community wealth. It may be reinvested to create more community wealth. But until that happens it's effectively removed from the collective resource pool and monopolised by private owners for private ends. This is not great when it's abstract numbers, but it inevitably seems to concretise as privileged individual control over property, land, exclu…

>The problem is more obvious in reverse: profit is money extracted from community wealth. On the contrary, profit is the part of the wealth generated by the company that remains with those who generated it!

> On the contrary, profit is the part of the wealth generated by the company that remains with those who generated it!

Only if 100% of the profit is distributed to the workers of the company.

Also, this is not relevant for a non-profit (which may also have profits).

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#206

Post by nradov »

wesselbindt wrote: post #203
nradov wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about, it's there clear as day, the US beats Cuba on life expectancy: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

> The current life expectancy for Cuba in 2024 is 79.33 years, a 0.19% increase from 2023. > The current life expectancy for U.S. in 2024 is 79.25 years, a 0.18% increase from 2023. Regardless of this whole discussion we're having, I'm confused as to how we're both able to come up with such different numbers from the same source. The above are direct quotes from the website we're both looking at. And then there's thi…

I never claimed that private healthcare is better. Don't put words in my mouth.

As for impact of various healthcare funding models on life expectancy, you appear to be confusing correlation with causation. The larger point is that healthcare system quality beyond a certain minimum level has only a small impact on life expectancy. It matters far less than lifestyle issues (diet, exercise, substance abuse) and sanitation.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#207

Post by gumby »

Almondsetat wrote: post #197
gumby wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whey shouldn’t they be further taxed? And if they lose money, as most do, they won’t owe any tax anyway. The special category doesn’t add anything to a legit charity but does help out fraudsters.

Do I need to repeat verbatim my reply to you?

You simply asserted that they "shouldn't be further taxed" and my question was why you think so. Repeating your comment verbatim would not answer my question.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#208

Post by Almondsetat »

gumby wrote: post #207
Almondsetat wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I need to repeat verbatim my reply to you?

You simply asserted that they "shouldn't be further taxed" and my question was why you think so. Repeating your comment verbatim would not answer my question.

>You simply asserted that they "shouldn't be further taxed"

That assertion sits in the same sentence that provides the justification

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#209

Post by tialaramex »

throw0101c wrote: post #187
tialaramex wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can reasonably be argued that the very idea of taking care of the poor, etc, only came into Western civilization because of Christianity. You can try that argument but it's not very convincing. I think you could do equally well arguing that slavery is the fault of Christianity, or warfare or various other things humans have sometimes done and sometimes not done... The ancient Greeks (so, significantly before Chr…

> You can try that argument but it's not very convincing. I think you could do equally well arguing that slavery is the fault of Christianity […] You can also argue for a Flat Earth, but all your arguments given would be bad: given that slavery existed before Christianity arrived on the scene, and early Christians (e.g., Gregory of Nyssa) argued against it, that would contain a bunch of bad arguments as well. The his…

> The current-day 'Western values' are Christian values. The most recent instance of non-Christian values being practiced in the West would probably be Nazism

I'm sure this feels right to you, but to get there you have to decide that the actual "Western values", which have little to do with Christianity, are instead somehow Christian, while the contrary practices of some Christians aren't.

The Nazis were mostly Christians, it could hardly have been otherwise given how Christian Germany was at the time. Yes, some Nazis wanted to destroy Christianity (and all of them wanted a Church subservient to their politics, but that was true everywhere, it's why the Church of England even exists) but on the whole they're a product of Christianity, even if that's uncomfortable for you.

Re: Hospitals that make profits should pay taxes

#210

Post by johngladtj »

antisthenes wrote: post #205
johngladtj wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is more obvious in reverse: profit is money extracted from community wealth. On the contrary, profit is the part of the wealth generated by the company that remains with those who generated it!

> On the contrary, profit is the part of the wealth generated by the company that remains with those who generated it! Only if 100% of the profit is distributed to the workers of the company. Also, this is not relevant for a non-profit (which may also have profits).

Why do you think workers should be entitled to more than they agreed contractually?

Should they also be liable for the losses incurred?

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