This really just feels like fearmongering because this is a threat to big pharma. I mean, several commonly prescribed antidepressants have black box warnings about increased risk of suicide. When they trialed Prozac on people with no history of mental illness, someone committed suicide out of the blue. Fairly certain someone could cobble together a much more compelling meta analysis about even worse adverse effects o…
I always thought the “war on drugs” was a big pharma turf war. Nearly every school shooter was on an antidepressant, but somehow that never makes headlines.
Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
71–80 of 120 posts
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is possible multiple processes are at work-it is possible that SSRIs increase violence risks independently of their antidepressant effect, and simultaneously their antidepressant effect also increases it. The two explanations aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive
Sure, but if that's what's going on, it should be researched further and taken seriously during prescribing. 100% guarantee that when psychedelics hit the market, doctors will fall prey to overstating the harms from studies like this while turning a blind eye to the wealth of evidence of greater likelihood of harms in prescriptions they churn out without blinking an eye. I'm not anti medication, and I'm not saying th…
Well I mean, it is, at least to some extent. The FDA has officially put a "black box" warning on antidepressants that they can increase the risk of suicide, especially in the young, and so have its counterpart agencies in several other countries. All doctors know about it – whether they all take that risk seriously enough is a matter of opinion, some are much more hesitant about prescribing them than others are. And it remains an active area of research.
> 100% guarantee that when psychedelics hit the market,
Here in Australia, they only let psychiatrists prescribe them (started in July last year for psilocybin and MDMA), and only for individually approved psychiatrists who have completed a training programme in psychedelic treatment. This is similar to our existing restrictions on prescribing psychostimulants–which most Australian states only permit psychiatrists and paediatricians to prescribe absent special approval–albeit even stricter. They'll likely relax the rules over time, but very unlikely non-psychiatrists will ever be legally allowed to prescribe them (outside of exceptional circumstances).
From what I understand, the approach in the US is different, as far as the DEA is concerned, theoretically, any doctor can get a DEA number which lets them prescribe any Schedule II/III/IV controlled substance. However, in practice, there are a number of drugs which very few US doctors would dare write a script for, even though by the letter of the law they are allowed to do it, because they don't want the "extra attention" the DEA will give them if they do – methamphetamine is a good example. (Technically, any Australian doctor can legally write a script for methamphetamine, but it is almost impossible to fill, because unlike the US, it isn't approved for sale in Australia–not because it is a controlled substance, rather because it lacks our equivalent of FDA-approval–the only way to actually fill the script would be to get a government permit to import it for an individual patient, and there is zero chance they'd approve such a permit unless the prescriber was a senior psychiatrist.)
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
That may be a factor, but it is likely more complex than just that. SSRIs can cause some individuals to become disinhibited, impulsive. It is a particularly common symptom in children and adolescents (which is why many paediatricians and child psychiatrists hesitate to prescribe them), but more rarely can happen in adults too. Probably some people have a genetic susceptibility to it. It isn’t purely about amelioratin…
I honestly wonder if it isn't less rare in adults or if adults just are more likely to fall through the cracks and to have whatever underlying disorder blamed on the behavior. Children are a more vulnerable group who has a parent who is witness to the obvious behavior changes and can staunchly advocate for their child. Many adults starting SSRIs are isolated, don't have great support networks or friends looking out f…
I've tried SSRIs several times, more than one (and an SNRI and MAOI too). They never did anything for me other than cause unpleasant side effects.
The best cure for depression I've ever found is Vyvanse/lisdexamfetamine. Is that because I was never actually depressed and my real problem all along was ADHD? Maybe... but, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure sometimes my depression has been an independent problem from my ADHD and sometimes a much bigger one. The fact is, psychostimulants have an antidepressant effect, and are sometimes even prescribed off-label to non-ADHD patients in order to treat depression (generally only for "treatment-resistant depression", i.e. "we've tried all the antidepressants and none of them work"). I think it could possibly benefit more people with depression (at least they should try it), but psychiatrists are discouraged from prescribing it for them (here in Australia, psychiatrists actually need per-patient government approval to legally prescribe stimulants off-label). In practice, it is easier to convince a psychiatrist that you have ADHD, than it is to convince a psychiatrist to prescribe you stimulants for something other than ADHD.
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#74N of one but my friend (who always saw the world as very black and white) killed herself not long after doing Ayahuasca. I’m pretty sure it contributed to her death, she became an extreme fantasist about judgement and god, not a formalised religion but a personified fantasy with crazed rules and vengeances. It was not good.
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm not a medical practitioner but it sounds like the experience triggered a psychotic "break" in your friend? It's a sad but real possibility with psychedelics that more people should be aware of.
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#75Feels like another publish or perish paper.
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#76Reminder. Psychedelics can also lead to extremely traumatic experiences: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/gb9ar0/dark_dmt_trip_r... This doesn’t get mentioned in the current “psychedelics as a cure-all” hype wave.
> and out of pure immaturity and desire to breakthrough I packed 100mg into the bowl.
https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/DMT says heavy dosage is 60mg+.
> This doesn’t get mentioned in the current “psychedelics as a cure-all” hype wave.
No. You forgot to mention 100mg is way above heavy dosage.
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#77It’s pretty scary to me that so many people seemingly on whim are willing to upgrade their brain firmware. I often hear stuff like “and then my whole view on reality changed”. Unless there’s an easy way to upload the previous “factory image” so to speak, it feels pretty risky to experiment with that.
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you know she wouldn't have killed herself without having tried Ayahuasca?
It’s funny, this is the sort of harshness and absolute certainty Jen would have come out with. Nothing is certain but my opinion given the outcome is that it definitely did not help.
Sorry for your loss.
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#79Reminder. Psychedelics can also lead to extremely traumatic experiences: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/gb9ar0/dark_dmt_trip_r... This doesn’t get mentioned in the current “psychedelics as a cure-all” hype wave.
RIP Richard Skibinski (July 17, 2022)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Psychedelics_Society/comments/uzed2...
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/legacyremembers/richard...
Re: Psychiatric risks for worsened mental health after psychedelic use
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
No.. 16% had a negative response, 28% had ~no response, and 55% had a positive response. I think people would be much more hesitant to try psychedelics for their mental issues if you told them it was a coin toss whether it would help or not -- and was an unlucky game of Russian Roulette from making their mental problems worse.
People take prescribed drugs for less than a 25% chance that it helps and a Russian roulette of side effects. Does sexual dysfunction improve depression?
It seems that right now people are too worried about a bad result messing up their ability to talk casually about their trips
I just want side effects to be based on less conjecture
science lets its beliefs die, faithful die with their beliefs
right now, psychonauts seem to be in the latter group and its not helping the science form at all