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California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

electrek.co

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Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#31

Post by usrusr »

renewiltord wrote: post #16
fragmede wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

running solar at night would be a real achievement!

I have fun news for you https://x.com/bennbuilds/status/1767961251186163857

Push am (ever so slightly) larger fraction of the sun's energy output into our atmosphere, what could possibly go wrong!

I know, the amount of net electricity per added total energy might end up no worse than in a fusion power best case scenario, but still... When you add the climate effect of re rocket launches required I don't think it could ever become worthwhile.

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#32

Post by toast0 »

mgraczyk wrote: post #7
callalex wrote: post #5

For a few minutes at low demand time. These kinds of over-grand claims are seriously harmful to the cause of promoting renewables because it makes it seem like we’re almost there and can stop caring. Just look at the excellent, accurate, and up-to-the-hour charts put out by the electricity market itself and you will see where and when the challenges we face still are. https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.…

The most striking thing is how incredibly flat the line for nuclear is.

That's more about economics than operations. Nuclear can modulate output, but pretty much won't except for operational needs (maintenance, grid needs). Older reactors take longer to modulate output, but either way, the economics say the reactor cost so much to build that you should run it at capacity as much as possible, especially since its lifetime is limited.

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#33

Post by snerc »

callalex wrote: post #5

For a few minutes at low demand time. These kinds of over-grand claims are seriously harmful to the cause of promoting renewables because it makes it seem like we’re almost there and can stop caring. Just look at the excellent, accurate, and up-to-the-hour charts put out by the electricity market itself and you will see where and when the challenges we face still are. https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.…

I'm not holding my breath until a Tokamak powers a building.

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#34

Post by mjburgess »

I'm not sure how many want to hear this, but western deinstustrailization and shifting of domestic production to imports makes most of this irrelevant.

In 20yr nigeria alone will have a larger population than the whole of europe, and is industrializing.

Total carbon consumption by westerns is always rising due to shifting it to imports; and in any case, we're only 1bn people.

Actually stopping carbon consumption by westerns rising is a "war footing" economic programme; and actually stopping climate change requires changing the industrialization trajectories of many non-western countries.

cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeling_Curve

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#35

Post by mjamesaustin »

w0z_ wrote: post #20

Spent many decades in California... Somehow 100% renewable but the most expensive electric I've ever paid for. How much does 2000kWh cost again? Also, the most prone to fire-hazard because of above-ground electric. Remember when PG&E caused the most destructive wildfire in California history? Weird rub-it-out article IMO most likely paid for by some PAC. With all the money pumped into California power projects, it ne…

If you want to see a power grid truly without good pricing, reliability, or safety, look at Texas. Summer brings constant outages and market prices dozens of times higher than the norm. People were getting bills for thousands of dollars for a single family home in recent summers.

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#36

Post by akira2501 »

nocoiner wrote: post #26
callalex wrote: post #5

For a few minutes at low demand time. These kinds of over-grand claims are seriously harmful to the cause of promoting renewables because it makes it seem like we’re almost there and can stop caring. Just look at the excellent, accurate, and up-to-the-hour charts put out by the electricity market itself and you will see where and when the challenges we face still are. https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.…

Are you sure it’s only a few minutes at low demand times? I checked a few days in April at your link, and if I’m reading the graphs right, it looks like renewable production exceeded demand for at least several hours in the afternoon for each of the days I checked. The headline on the original article seems unhelpful and perhaps deliberately misleading, but unless I’m reading the graphs wrong (quite possible!) this a…

It's also notable that battery capacity has increased quite a bit over the past year. The reduction in NG power plants output after sundown is pretty remarkable.

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#37

Post by bnjemian »

Mark Z. Jacobson! Haven't heard that name in a few years.

Don't know him personally, but here's a tangent for the interested: In the first year of my PhD, I read several of his papers from the 90's on the GATOR family of climate models. At the time, I was interested in a potential intersection with my field. One thing that struck me was the absolutely exquisite attention to detail in one of his papers made to model the perspiration of water vapor from leaf stomata in forests (don't have the paper handy but can find if anyone's interested). It was really quite impressive.

Anyway, just thought I'd share the anecdote :)

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#38

Post by baseline-shift »

callalex wrote: post #5

For a few minutes at low demand time. These kinds of over-grand claims are seriously harmful to the cause of promoting renewables because it makes it seem like we’re almost there and can stop caring. Just look at the excellent, accurate, and up-to-the-hour charts put out by the electricity market itself and you will see where and when the challenges we face still are. https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.…

This is incorrect. It is not for a few minutes!

We are way way past that at this point. The renewable generation meeting the total demand is over most of the day. Because of solar PV, the cheapest generation now, the daytime electricity supply is actually more than we need in California. Solar farms (and also wind farms)get curtailed here due to supplying more than the grid can take at times; this is usually for several hours.

Source; reporter covering solar news through interviews with grid operators, solar developers and policymakers since 2008

Re: California exceeds 100% of energy demand with renewables over a record 30 days

#39

Post by w0z_ »

w0z_ wrote: post #20

Spent many decades in California... Somehow 100% renewable but the most expensive electric I've ever paid for. How much does 2000kWh cost again? Also, the most prone to fire-hazard because of above-ground electric. Remember when PG&E caused the most destructive wildfire in California history? Weird rub-it-out article IMO most likely paid for by some PAC. With all the money pumped into California power projects, it ne…

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