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Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

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Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#161

Post by master_crab »

qntnt wrote: post #145
antiframe wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were true, then many units would be empty. In my city prices are high but vacancy is low. So, how are the prices too high? People are paying them. If there were more supply, prices would drop, but laws prevent increasing supply.

> If that were true, then many units would be empty. This is literally true. In SF as of 2023, there's roughly 60,000 vacant units. In New York as of 2021, apartments listed as available and unavailable for rent but also vacant was around 89,000. To contrast, there was around 7,700 unhoused people in SF in 2023.

Yeah 89k sounds very low actually.

Once you consider apartments in between leases, apartments in Reno, and anything else without a certificate of occupancy, that sounds like the right amount for a hot market with low vacancies

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#162

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

nurple wrote: post #159
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we please stop talking about "rent seeking" in economics before we learn what it actually means? kthanxbai

I happen to think landlording is a manipulative use of resources that leverages capital to perpetually inflict usury on people that can least afford it with little hope of raising themselves up. I've had half a dozen landlords in the last 10 years, and every single one provided absolutely zero value outside of their fortune to take a home someone else could live in. In fact, in my most recent home with 12 zones of sp…

Also the definition of "usury", also that the plural of anecdote is not "data".

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#163

Post by red-iron-pine »

selimthegrim wrote: post #157
TimedToasts wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fourth order effect: hiring more FBI agents to monitor the Third Orders. Fifth order effect: hiring more FBI agents to monitor the Fourth Orders. Sixth order effect: Eventually unemployment will be solved!

This sounds like the Okhrana.

the original Deep State

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#164

Post by s1artibartfast »

nurple wrote: post #160
s1artibartfast wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. The economics are pretty simple. If someone has a job but no assets, how do you expect someone to pay builders and materials? If they could, they would be an owner, not a renter. If they were credit worthy, they would be an owner, not a renter. Renting is effectively a short term loan for the value of the house. Try getting a 12 month loan for $1M without collateral, and see what the interest rates are.

Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's not broken. If we didn't allow speculation in the housing market, that person probably _would_ be credit worthy enough for a reasonable priced home. The problem we're seeing in the housing "market" today isn't that people with no job or assets can afford a home, the problem is that prices have been inflated under speculation so much that we've passed the point where…

You say it is speculation and scare quote the word market, but do you have any reason to believe houses are overvalued and not a real price?

My hcol house cost. $1.5M. The labor and materials to replace the structure are assessed at $1M,leaving 500k for the land. There are no empty lots around so I'm inclined to think that land in the bay area is worth that. I know I paid 500k to live closer to my job.

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#165

Post by readyman »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #150
readyman wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also nonsense, but irrelevant regardless. By exactly your logic, technology has always increasingly displaced demand for labor. This isn't new at all. So-called "reskilling" is always outsourced to the responsibility of labor. The professions you describe are regulated into scarcity on an ongoing basis by capital . Any exception to this rule is simply that. In the aggregate, capital accumulates.

I dont understand your objection. Are you saying that captital regulates AI scientists and Surgeons into scarcity, and that by doing so, they make more profit than if they payed lower salary to those professions?

For AI scientist, the data is not in and it's all financial speculation so a different conversation.

For surgeons, yes. The American medial industry is uniquely exploitative so invests a tremendous amount of capital in backing up its claims of prividing the "best" medical care (only for wealthy people). Of course, the American Medical Association and American Association of Physicians play their parts in contributing to the scarcity by lobbying for extremely expensive education requirements that can only be afforded by those with inherited wealth (with a few exceptions only via charity).

Just as the feudalist aristocracies, the capitalist bourgeoise pull up the ladders behind them. It only works when capital has an incentive. In the case of a few American industries like medical, those incentives are especially strong. However, such incentives do not exist in almost any other country, and salaries reflect this.

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#166

Post by api »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #127
hackerlight wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most extreme example the world has to offer is not representative of what would happen if the US legalized housing. HK has almost 200x the population density of the US and almost 100x the population density of California.

Slums can be found in nearly every country's history. Housing regulations are important: it's zoning restrictions that cause availability problems, not quality regs, and it's important to make the distinction. (When your community is exempt from zoning regulations, you can do things about the problem: https://macleans.ca/society/sen%CC%93a%E1%B8%B5w-vancouver ) But zoning restrictions on housing maintain the prices o…

> We're not going to have change until real-estate owners abandon the idea that housing is supposed to be profitable.

"Housing can't be simultaneously affordable and a good investment."

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#167

Post by s1artibartfast »

readyman wrote: post #165
s1artibartfast wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont understand your objection. Are you saying that captital regulates AI scientists and Surgeons into scarcity, and that by doing so, they make more profit than if they payed lower salary to those professions?

For AI scientist, the data is not in and it's all financial speculation so a different conversation. For surgeons, yes. The American medial industry is uniquely exploitative so invests a tremendous amount of capital in backing up its claims of prividing the "best" medical care (only for wealthy people). Of course, the American Medical Association and American Association of Physicians play their parts in contributing…

For Surgeons, you are conflating and blaming the actions of labor and the actions of capitalists.

I the AMA and AAP driving up is labor driving up costs in its own interest. Same as any other workers association or union working to restrict supply. Capitalists (e.g. hospital owners), have an incentive for lower salaries.

Similarly, its not the owners of salons that pushes things like 1,000 hours of training required for a barber.

Just because it is anti-consumer, doesn't make the person behind it a capitalist. My fundamental point however is independent of the reason for scarcity, but that labor scarcity itself is what drive high salary for those roles, and an oversupply of qualified workers drive down supply in other roles.

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