Obituary for a quiet life (2023) • Hacker News Board

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#181

Post by akomtu » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 4:47 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #95

zikduruqe wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“A young boy became a monk. He dreamed of enlightenment and of learning great things. When he got to the monastery he was told that each morning he had to chop wood for the monks fires and then carry water up to the monastery for ablutions and the kitchen. He attended prayers and meditation, but the teaching he was given was rather sparse. One day he was told to take some tea to the Abbot in his chambers. He did so a…

I’m not an expert on Buddhism but this anecdote/story has never been particularly insightful to me. One criticism I have is that it treats Enlightenment/knowledge etc. as a single transferable piece of knowledge, and seems to not notice the impact of process and undergoing the ritual. “The journey is the destination” and so forth. Chopping wood and carrying water may be the answer, but you might not realize the signi…

The word "mindfully" at the end carries too much meaning that can't be unpacked without reading a bunch of books. This story looks identical to many stories told in the dzogchen branch of buddhism. The basic idea is that normal life is full of earthly activities: chopping woods and carrying water. An average mind gets distracted by those activities and is dragged passively from one distraction to another. An enlightened mind watches these earthly activities with full attention, like you would watch colorful butterflies, but is not carried away from deep realisation that these butterflies come and go as simple decorations of the neutral state of mind, which is often called "emptiness". When these two qualities meet - emptiness and clarity of perception - the mind enters the natural state and if you can stay in that state while chopping woods and carrying water, you're enlightened. If chopping woods carries you away from that natural state, you're said to be "distracted".

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#182

Post by vondur » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 4:47 PM UTC

Archelaos wrote: post #128

tycho-newman wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German schools also ruthlessly cull students beginning in grade 4 or 5. Only a small number ever get the opportunity to go to university at all, let alone at those fees. German universities are relatively cheap because they keep the eligibility pool small. That reduces the cost to the state.

> Only a small number ever get the opportunity to go to university at all In 2022, 56.4% of people living in Germany of a yearly cohort started university (including universities of higher education/Fachhochschule). 51.7% of males, 61.5% of females. 473,665 people (this number includes some foreign students, though) out of a population of aprox. 84 million. All in all, 2,915,700 people studied in Germany. I would not…

Here's the stats for California (population 39 million):

California has the highest number of college students in the United States, with 2.58 million enrolled in 2023.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#183

Post by hereonout2 » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 4:47 PM UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #168

vundercind wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staring at screens all day is weirdly taxing. My wife used to have a much harder job than mine. Social, active, moving around, thinking on her feet, lots of prep, high stakes sometimes, somewhat abusive environment. She left it for WFH and a non-programming computer-heavy office job. After a couple weeks, one day she said to me, “ Now I understand why you’re so worn-out after work hours” I’ve felt a lot more refreshe…

That's the exact opposite of my experience. I grew up on a farm, and as you might imagine it involved hard physical labor daily. I would 100x rather do my current job as a systems engineer. It's so much easier than working on the farm that I feel guilty sometimes, because I know that I work 1/10 as hard as people making 1/5 of what I do.

I just paid to get my lawn cleared for a new patio. A guy single handedly shovelled 8 tonnes of clay soil into a skip over two days.

He charged much less than I earned in the same two days configuring AWS lambda functions. It's hard to imagine I had the more exhausting job.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#184

Post by hereonout2 » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

sebastiansm wrote: post #180

hereonout2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my late 20s I realised I was very good at my programming job but not much use at anything else. It was quite a disappointing realisation. I started to do less and eventually no programming outside of office hours and instead invest my spare time in different hobbies and experiences. I found gaining these new skills really helped build my confidence. 15 years later I'm not just a programmer, I'm a also a motorc…

Programmers and wood. Best friends forever.

Indeed, it's almost a cliche.

I believe it satisfies some sort of primeval urge magnified by sitting in front of a screen for decades.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#185

Post by kbenson » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 4:57 PM UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #168

vundercind wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staring at screens all day is weirdly taxing. My wife used to have a much harder job than mine. Social, active, moving around, thinking on her feet, lots of prep, high stakes sometimes, somewhat abusive environment. She left it for WFH and a non-programming computer-heavy office job. After a couple weeks, one day she said to me, “ Now I understand why you’re so worn-out after work hours” I’ve felt a lot more refreshe…

That's the exact opposite of my experience. I grew up on a farm, and as you might imagine it involved hard physical labor daily. I would 100x rather do my current job as a systems engineer. It's so much easier than working on the farm that I feel guilty sometimes, because I know that I work 1/10 as hard as people making 1/5 of what I do.

They're not saying it's harder, just that it leaves you not wanting to do other things when you're done, and in a way that doesn't map to traditional physical fatigue, which is why it's "weirdly" taxing and not just taxing.

Mental and emotional fatigue accrue and exhibit themselves differently sometimes, but often matter quite a bit in the end. Plenty of people choose to leave well paid office jobs for more physical jobs that pay less. Unless you think they have a mental illness or are stupid, presumably they did it for a good reason.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#186

Post by DontchaKnowit » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

zorrolovsky wrote: post #23

Beautiful writing. It comes at an interesting time for me. I'm in a full blown mid-life crisis where my state of mind fluctuates between full contentment and wishing I was doing more with life. This article made me think. On the one hand, I'm content because I come from an unprivileged background. My family was abusive. Me and my brothers struggled with mental health. We ran away from home as soon as we could. Where…

Im kinda in the same boat. Recently got a dog and have been finding absolute bliss in literally just sitting in the grass with him for like 30 mins at a time. Really is the highlight of my life at this juncture and im totally cool with that.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#187

Post by mlyle » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

dakiol wrote: post #69

The_Colonel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to do more. Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences. The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a richer life means earning/spending a lot of money / reaources. There's so much personal development you can do without participating in the materialistic rat race.

> There's so much personal development you can do without participating in the materialistic rat race. That takes money, although in a different form: time. I can only enjoy those experiences if I have time for them (and I’m not talking about enjoying them after working 8h during the day, because I end up exhausted and cannot enjoy anything at all). So, in order to enjoy things I need to work less, which means less m…

It kind of comes down to money, but...

My wife and I work as teachers now after successful paths in tech. I do some consulting, choosing the most interesting problems instead of money.

We seek fulfillment and meaning and personal growth instead of papering over suck buying nice things.

Of course, having a big pile of capital as a backup makes this a lot safer to do.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#188

Post by blackSnake » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

vundercind wrote: post #126

hereonout2 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for almost all of us though? Nearly everyone has to work at least 5x 8 hour days a week - some much more. Some have complex family needs that must be attended to before any personal time can even be considered. There is always some time though, it just needs to be made and scheduled and worked on. We can choose to veg out in front of Netflix, or doom scroll, or peruse hacker news, but we can also choose…

Staring at screens all day is weirdly taxing. My wife used to have a much harder job than mine. Social, active, moving around, thinking on her feet, lots of prep, high stakes sometimes, somewhat abusive environment. She left it for WFH and a non-programming computer-heavy office job. After a couple weeks, one day she said to me, “ Now I understand why you’re so worn-out after work hours” I’ve felt a lot more refreshe…

I've noticed that too. Its an unnatural thing for the body to do, interacting with a computer or other digital device for that length of time. I've never walked away from using the computer feeling charged and rejuvenated, even when working on something I enjoy. Not mentally, I am referring to a whole body feeling.

I believe the vibrations emanating from digital devices is partly incompatible with human biology, so the body spends significant energy trying to maintain its default "state" so to speak, which is why it feels draining to use computer for long stretches of time. If you read a book for hours on end, it would not have the same effect so its not purely the sedentary nature of it.

In qi-gong practice, there is a concept known as "drawing" where you can increase your strength and vitality from being in proximity to different objects. For example, if I put you in a room full of plants and natural sunlight, you WILL become physically stronger instantly. If I put you in a server computer room, you will become physically weaker instantly. The body is constantly adjusting its "aura".

I don't know the science behind it, but it is easy to experiment with. Have someone resist a push while in a wide stance while holding in their left hand

1. a phone in their hand turned on

2. hold a living plant

3. glass of water

4. a battery

See if you can feel the difference in your ability to resist the push. It will change based on the object in your hand.

There is some challenges:

1. the pusher has to have correct form and measured strength. By correct form, it means you know how to correctly use your body to create an effective push (standing too close to not engage your legs, only using your arms to push, etc) Measured strength means similar force each time to have a base to compare to.

2. the pushee has to maintain a "neutral" state and provide the same amount of resistance on every push, to maintain the "control" group.

3. enough sensitivity as the pusher to feel the different levels of resistance provided by the pushee. On some pushes, the pushee might feel "heavier" or "lighter"

4. Patience. Whatever object you are holding has an effect on your body and most people cannot feel it initially. In fact, it takes years to cultivate enough sensitivity to feel subtle changes.

I think there has been some research on this topic in regards to wearing synthetic clothing made of nylon or polyester.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#189

Post by vjk800 » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #13

“ after a day driving a laundry truck. His bride, Grace, snapped the photo outside their first house.” Driving a laundry truck.. first house.. Life was so much better a few decades ago.

Fruitland, North Carolina has population of about 2000. Something tells me you too can buy a house while driving a laundry truck if you're willing to move to Fruitland.

Re: Obituary for a quiet life (2023)

#190

Post by jwells89 » Sun, Apr 14, 2024, 5:03 PM UTC

dakiol wrote: post #69

The_Colonel wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to do more. Launch projects, earn more money, live more experiences. The only thing you need is to stop this idea that living a richer life means earning/spending a lot of money / reaources. There's so much personal development you can do without participating in the materialistic rat race.

> There's so much personal development you can do without participating in the materialistic rat race. That takes money, although in a different form: time. I can only enjoy those experiences if I have time for them (and I’m not talking about enjoying them after working 8h during the day, because I end up exhausted and cannot enjoy anything at all). So, in order to enjoy things I need to work less, which means less m…

This exactly. I’d love to not have to work for a living so I could spend my days tinkering on projects, drawing, learning an instrument, etc. There’s so much to learn and resources to do so have never been more abundant or readily available. There’s enough to keep a person busy for several lifetimes.

But that requires money. A lot of it, if that’s what I want to do from today in my mid-30s onward.

I’m already doing some of this in my spare time and I’m grateful for the ability and opportunity to do so — having come from a poor background it’s absolutely not taken for granted — but having to work to live means everything else is pushed off into the margins with whatever energy and passion is leftover. I want to be able to get obsessed with and lost in whatever I’m pursuing like I did as a teenager, and that’s not feasible as long as a job is commanding most of my waking productive hours.