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Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

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Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#51

Post by randywaterhouse »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #34
buzzy_hacker wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC, you typically need to earn 40x the monthly rent in annual income to not need a guarantor. 73k / 40 = $1825/month in rent. The median 1 bedroom apartment in NYC is $3,263 according to Zillow https://www.zillow.com/rental-manager/market-trends/new-york...

you're saying people look at gross income to determine if someone can rent a place rather than net ?

This is common practice across the US and the rule-of-thumb 40x generally tries to take most cases into account. i.e., 40x after taxes and other typical debt levels is "risk appropriate" for landlords... Though don't get me started on how this reduces landlord risk to a level where they should not see profits...

It does seem odd though when you consider one person with 40x may have a completely different net than another.

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#52

Post by probably_jesus »

We can afford to fund wars (while the military industrial complex gets rich) and bail out banks who sell junk mortgages (so bank shareholders get rich) and we can afford to house illegal immigrants (some of whom are enemy invaders, enjoying hotel living because it's the same cost of living as a crap apartment) but we can't afford to give the people who protect us a fair living wage (a lot of whom go into private security which is a national liability because it forces operators to go after the money just to be able to eat)

This country's priorities are all bass awkward and it's the government's fault. What do lawmakers even do?

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#53

Post by airstrike »

woodruffw wrote: post #20
i_like_waiting wrote: post #3

>In New York, for example, starting salaries for FBI agents hover around $73,000. But a nonprofit group in the city reported people need to earn at least $100,000 to afford food, housing and transportation there. Does this hold truth? I know it's expensive city, but 73k is also median salary here, do they want to say that more than half people here cannot afford basic needs? That doesn't sound right

The $150K number for a family of 4 sounds about right, but $100K for one person in NYC seems pretty far off. I have a lot of friends living in desirable neighborhoods making half that. (The disconnect here is always around expectations: it will invariably be revealed that this includes a 1/2BR with no roommates within walking distance of the person’s workplace, when in reality much of this city has roommates and uses…

I don't think it's unfair to expect adults to be able to afford a 1 bedroom with no roommates

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#54

Post by grugagag »

yellow_lead wrote: post #14
i_like_waiting wrote: post #3

>In New York, for example, starting salaries for FBI agents hover around $73,000. But a nonprofit group in the city reported people need to earn at least $100,000 to afford food, housing and transportation there. Does this hold truth? I know it's expensive city, but 73k is also median salary here, do they want to say that more than half people here cannot afford basic needs? That doesn't sound right

A quick google gives me median rent of $3500. After tax, 73k comes to about 54,599. Divided by 12 is 4,546 per month. So you have about $1,000 a month for utilities, food, gas/train, etc. It seems difficult to live on.

And on top of it that’s a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. Forbid wanting to have a 401k or some savings, afford any amount of travel or continue education…

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#55

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

master_crab wrote: post #4

The problem is the FBI uses mostly the same GS pay scale as the rest of the federal government. So if the pay stinks for them, it also stinks for every other government agency. And that’s a much bigger problem then Mulder and Scully not making rent.

Yeah. For 2024, a newly promoted Supervisory Special Agent (which, as the name suggests, is a supervisory position requiring years of experience as a Special Agent) in NYC makes about $150K including locality adjustment. That's probably ballpark for base salary for a new-promote (3 YoE) associate at a Wall St bank.

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#56

Post by fransje26 »

And the financial insecurity that comes with it makes them a lot more susceptible to bribery.

Great.

On the other hand, it is absolutely insane that the minimum needed to cover a family of 4 is around $150,000. At what point do we accept that the greed the current economic model creates is pushing price inflation beyond unsustainable levels, and at what point do we stop this circus before everything collapses and we, as a society, loose everything we have? This really reminds me of [0]..

[0] https://www.insidehook.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/tom-to...

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#57

Post by dragontamer »

sneak wrote: post #21
beanjuiceII wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the gs pay scale also means these agencies use more contract workers who end up costing way way more. It's a dual world that exists

You’re telling me that an organization that has zero incentive to be efficient with money is being penny wise and pound foolish? This is the same problem with violent and criminal cops - the lawsuits against the department are paid by taxpayers, not the offenders. The people who make these bad decisions aren’t wasting their own money - they’re wasting the money taken from you and I by force. They have no incentive to…

> You’re telling me that an organization that has zero incentive to be efficient with money is being penny wise and pound foolish?

All of these pay limits are capped by Senator's pay of $180k ish.

No Senator (or House Member) is going to vote for typical FBI agents to have higher salaries than themselves. What we're seeing here is the American people refusing to give pay-raises to our executive class / leadership class, and then the natural degradation of our leaders and pay-scales all the way down the chain.

We're well past due of giving Senators / House members a proper pay raise. Maybe then we'll actually have smart people running for these important positions again.

> The people who make these bad decisions aren’t wasting their own money - they’re wasting the money taken from you and I by force. They have no incentive to stop wasting it.

No Congressman or Senator will think that FBI pay raises would be fair, when they themselves aren't allowed a pay aise to a sufficient level.

Top end executive level FBI (ex: FBI Head) will be close to Congressional pay or maybe just a little above that.

Then, the rest of the GS scale builds down from there. By the time we get to starting salaries, its insufficient.

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#58

Post by billy99k »

leereeves wrote: post #10
fifteen1506 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the free enterprise????

Housing isn't a free market; it's heavily regulated, subsidized, and politicized.

Exactly. Regulations have made it so expensive and difficult to build housing in many parts of California (and other major cities in the US), that the demand outstrips the supply and it leads to unaffordable housing.

I keep seeing memes about housing costs in the 1960s being so cheap. I also wonder what the housing regulations were at this time. I'm guessing pretty light compared to now.

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#59

Post by kilotaras »

Housing theory of everything[0] strikes again.

Situation: Housing demand outstrips housing supply.

First order effect: housing prices go up

Second order effect: your FBI agents are now experiencing financial instability and worries

Third order effect: your FBI agents are now more susceptible to bribes

[0] https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-every...

Re: Many FBI agents are struggling to make ends meet. Housing costs are to blame

#60

Post by readyman »

mrktf wrote: post #48
dwheeler wrote: post #27

The broader problem is lack of housing that can be afforded by the non-wealthy, which is caused in significant part by zoning laws. If more housing was available, the increased supply would better match the demand.

That is broader problem to solve, not taking account any civil infrastructure the houses will be bought by corporate rent company and renters will be charged "fair price" - pretty same as now (not long ago the was article with discussion about rent price fixing https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39575803 )

Yeah, capital accumulation is an inherent quality of capitalism, and accumulated capital then controls the state making so-called regulation impossible. It's only a matter of time.
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