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The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

231–240 of 337 posts

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#231

The thing that is actually missing from this entire essay is competition. The biggest single reason why the USA's (and to a lesser extent Canada's) internet is shite is because of the monopolies that exist. In the EU there are similar offers for "enhanced" access, but its not speeding up/slowing down apps, but giving "free" access, as in not counting to your data cap. Instead of making the FCC stop fast lanes, the FC…

There is no “monopoly” on cellular service. There are three national carriers and a few regional carriers that have their own network.

How exactly do more carriers competing locally even work? You slice the spectrum they are allowed and have worse service? Do you remember when t-mobiles spectrum allocation was so bad that you couldn’t get a signal inside of a building?

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution there is transparency. I'd be much happier if the government regulations gave me information to make an informed decision rather than forced a decision on me.

I’d say the exact opposite. It’s clear the majority of customers here cannot make an informed decision either by way of incompetence about the technical aspects that would enable them to detect bad faith behavior on the part of ISPs, or lack of transparency, or outright lack of competition in their market. Competition does not work to increase quality if the customer cannot judge it. The entire benefits of markets an…

The only reason utilities are regulated are because they are natural monopoly. It doesn’t make sense to have more than one utility company with right of way to dig up streets to create the needed infrastructure.

To an extent, cellular is a natural oligopoly. Each carrier needs enough spectrum to have decent service. But it isn’t a monopoly.

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why doesn't the monopoly employ the same cost-saving measures for even bigger margins? They would. The issue is that competition alone wouldn't fix it, because there is an information deficit. Some people will pick the lowest price and not realize that the ISP offering it is taking kickbacks from incumbent services to degrade their own competitors. And since this is always bad -- it's anti-competitive in the market…

So the solution there is transparency. I'd be much happier if the government regulations gave me information to make an informed decision rather than forced a decision on me.

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Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#234

Recently Jon Stewart talked about the burden we struggle with having to deal with an obviously corrupt government: In order to make this world one where I would consider living... It is a day in, day out, lunch pail type job. Thousands of people banging on doors, until they get something done. And then, keeping it done takes thousands more doing the same thing DAY IN, DAY OUT, FOREVER. Truth! People ask, "How many ti…

I see that sentiment isn't popular.

Yeah, join the club. I don't like it either, but I can tell you Stewart is awful close to truth on this.

Lived experience. In his case, getting and maintaining services for 9/11 responders and then keeping that in place happened to be his heavy lift for the decade he was away from "The Daily Show"

Mine was a ton of activism last decade. Bumped into that "thousands of people" myself and saw the need first hand.

Those people need to eat and fund their work somehow, or it does not get done.

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in China for 9 years and always found the internet, even for going just to Chinese sites, to be really slow. Like sure you have 5G, but the overall internet trunks are just saturated and not built out enough. Maybe it has gotten better since I left Beijing in 2016? It was definitely cheap and affordable. But I always felt a huge speed bump (along with easy access to foreign web sites) when I went to Thailand…

> always found the internet, even for going just to Chinese sites, to be really slow A lot of that is because of the GFW. MITM/TLS decryption/DPI has a massive performance overhead (and why the first question any agent based security product is ask is whether it is "in the path of traffic"). It's basically a giant version of Zscaler Private Access (ZPA) The performance hit is a major reason why a lot of edge computin…

Hmm, then I’m not even sure why they bother with lines out anymore. They’ve blocked pretty much everything abroad, it seems like they could speed things up by just scrapping the GFW and physically disconnecting their internet from the rest of the world.

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#236
post #16
post #4

ISPs are desperate to be part of the monetary exchange of services over their infrastructure, they've been trying to become more than "dumb pipes" for decades and virtually no one wants that. Imagine if the water company could charge you more for a glass of water than a toilet flush.

Well they sort of do already — typically you pay less for water for irrigation (usually because sewerage is metered by water usage and obv if it goes on the lawn it’s not going down the drain). In places like Florida however irrigation water is reclaimed and not treated the same was as drinking water and has totally separate plumbing and metering (and pricing).

So you’re not using the sewer then? Isn’t that completely logical not to pay for it?

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say the exact opposite. It’s clear the majority of customers here cannot make an informed decision either by way of incompetence about the technical aspects that would enable them to detect bad faith behavior on the part of ISPs, or lack of transparency, or outright lack of competition in their market. Competition does not work to increase quality if the customer cannot judge it. The entire benefits of markets an…

The only reason utilities are regulated are because they are natural monopoly. It doesn’t make sense to have more than one utility company with right of way to dig up streets to create the needed infrastructure. To an extent, cellular is a natural oligopoly. Each carrier needs enough spectrum to have decent service. But it isn’t a monopoly.

Agriculture isn't a natural monopoly either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have food safety standards.

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> always found the internet, even for going just to Chinese sites, to be really slow A lot of that is because of the GFW. MITM/TLS decryption/DPI has a massive performance overhead (and why the first question any agent based security product is ask is whether it is "in the path of traffic"). It's basically a giant version of Zscaler Private Access (ZPA) The performance hit is a major reason why a lot of edge computin…

Hmm, then I’m not even sure why they bother with lines out anymore. They’ve blocked pretty much everything abroad, it seems like they could speed things up by just scrapping the GFW and physically disconnecting their internet from the rest of the world.

> it seems like they could speed things up by just scrapping the GFW and physically disconnecting their internet from the rest of the world

If you do that, international commerce for China grinds to a complete halt (though ik one very large F50 that is in the process of completely decoupling in the next 2 years)

Especially because this kind of an en masse disconnection means completely disconnecting Chinese assets abroad from their mainland HQs.

Down the grapevine, I have heard some provinces testing that kind of a whitelist, but I'm not sure how true that is.

If an actual nationwide whitelist is implemented, I think that is proof enough that war be coming. Even Roskomnadzor didn't try implementing a similar system until the 2022 escalation.

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it's a brand name they tested across multiple languages, etc

Most countries are somewhat familiar with english slang, such as the word dildo.

It's not slang, it's just a word. And the Dutch for dildo is ... dildo (I would have expected shared roots in French or some such, but apparently it's a loanword from English since the 70s).

Re: The FCC needs to stop 5G fast lanes

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly? That's a bit bold of a claim. The provider you're talking about is the utility company. You might not know why the utility company provides the internet either. It's because before that they couldn't get the other companies (AT&T, Comcast, Hughe, Verizon) to offer good speeds and reasonable rates. The utility also doesn't take a profit. Mind you, those other companies still operate and no one is holding the…

It's weird that we keep seeing this happen and work but then it isn't more popular. Government services are typically inefficient, but so are private monopolies for almost exactly the same reasons. If you put them into competition with each other then they both have more competition and have to do better.

I think it is because it requires significant cooperation. And by significant, I mean size, not the actual amount of action required by an individual.

This is an interesting problem to me and seems to be quite a prolific issue. I think it is because everyone feels like they are a tiny meaningless cog in a giant machine. But this confuses me. Even tiny cogs play an important role. Even if your function is redundant, that redundancy is built in for a reason. I hear the common sentiment "you're replaceable" and I think people take this to be "perfectly" fungible. But you may be a replaceable worker, but that also doesn't mean replacing you is easy. They usually gotta look for someone new, pay them more, and then train them (this is why I'm also really confused why companies won't increase existing workers' salaries against new hires. Because your current workers likely have significantly more utility than a new worker. You lose money by doing this. Not to mention essentially give away your work practices to competitors, weirdly leveling the playing field).

But it infuriates me when there are things that are universally hated, have relatively easy solutions, AND no one does anything. Be it a boss/manager who just says no to pressing a button that enables functionality where all the work has already been done and tested. Or simply voting in a new politician when everyone hates the current one. Or how 1 in 4 Americans dislike both Trump and Biden. How the early primary states will not even use their advantage to push towards a different candidate because we're playing this stupid game of chicken where people act like the primaries aren't actually the BEST time to vote or signal for a different candidate. I just don't get it...

And I've always been a fan of government directly participating in the market. (Even though I generally like weaker/smaller governments.) They can set a baseline. Gov is always participating, regardless, since they do regulations and all that, so I don't buy those arguments. But there are many more things becoming natural monopolies as advantage is provided by scale. A government actor essentially is able to set pseudo regulations by participating. USPS helps make FedEx and UPS better, but now they get so many cuts that UPS uses them as last mile deliverers despite operating in the region. Still, USPS ensures mail gets to people who would otherwise not be able to even get mail. I don't see why we don't have similar services from broadband and telecommunications. They are essential services these days. Plus, it would create a lot of good quality jobs as not only those people needed to maintain the systems but even all the contractors to do the initial buildouts.

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