Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 214 posts

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#41

Post by crisply5706 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #34
__s wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple dimensions https://getgoally.com/blog/autism-spectrum-wheel Along with many comorbidities (adhd, ocd, depression, etc) which are more likely but not requisite This leads to the saying "if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism"

> "if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism" Isn't this true for just about any condition? It's not like people with ADHD or depression all behave exactly the same. I understand the urge to avoid categorizing people too broadly, but at the same time making the "taxonomy" of a condition hyperspecific is contradictory to having the label in the first place. If saying "I have autism" has n…

Keep in mind that the current state of our knowledge of autism and other neurological conditions is still extremely new. Just 30 years ago, you would have been told that only young white boys exhibit autism.

There is debate within the autism community about ditching the catch-all term "autism", but I don't expect it to go anywhere. Broad labels like that are useful. I can tell a random person that I'm autistic and they generally understand that my "abnormal" behavior is innocuous. It's less useful to give a stranger a 30 minute lecture on my individual needs and challenges.

Read up on the controversy around asperger's and the "high/low functioning" dichotomy. These were standard measures for a long time and have only been dropped in the last ten years or so.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#42

Post by crisply5706 »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #6
drooby wrote: post #4

This seems to bolster the theory that autism is modulated by the gut-brain axis. Being given antibiotics at such an early age will probably severely dysregulation gut microbiota. And GABA actually does cross the BBB but in small amounts. Perhaps at such an early age, dysregulation in GABA produced in the gut has significant effects on brain health - over stimulation, learning memory issues, etc.

Reading the article, it turns out the one twin who is "more autistic" had a hole in his heart that surgery had to correct. So I suspect the actual issue here is something simpler like a difference in brain development because of the difference in the amount of blood flow.

My theory is that this causation is flipped. Something about whatever the precursor to autism is causes the body to experience more physical failures or malformed structures.

Something like whatever mechanisms decode structure from the genome are faulty and produce slightly wrong structures throughout the brain and body.

Anecdotally, I see a higher rate of general illness and physical birth defects in autistic people.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#43

Post by crisply5706 »

astura wrote: post #18
hiciu wrote: post #2

> identical twins at opposite ends of the autism spectrum. I understand this is just a figure of speech, but this wording suggests that there are "two ends" of the spectrum and (as I understand it) autistic communities are trying to fight that myth.

I mean... that's literally the definition of "spectrum" From a few random dictionaries: >2. used to classify something, or suggest that it can be classified, in terms of its position on a scale between two extreme or opposite points. >a range of different positions, opinions, etc. between two extreme points ?????

https://getgoally.com/blog/autism-spectrum-wheel

The naïve assumption is the spectrum is a binary more/less autistic. It very much is not.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#44

Post by empressplay »

crisply5706 wrote: post #42
sidewndr46 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the article, it turns out the one twin who is "more autistic" had a hole in his heart that surgery had to correct. So I suspect the actual issue here is something simpler like a difference in brain development because of the difference in the amount of blood flow.

My theory is that this causation is flipped. Something about whatever the precursor to autism is causes the body to experience more physical failures or malformed structures. Something like whatever mechanisms decode structure from the genome are faulty and produce slightly wrong structures throughout the brain and body. Anecdotally, I see a higher rate of general illness and physical birth defects in autistic people…

There appears to be some correlation between Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and autism

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7711487/

It makes a certain amount of sense that a collagen / connective tissue disorder is going to have wide-ranging effects, including the nervous system

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#47

Post by twobitshifter »

drooby wrote: post #39

It's so interesting to see the differences in their faces. I can tell from the folds and wrinkles on Sam's face that he engages in more neurotypical communication.

Sam also now has thinner hair than John. Stress of college, different diet, something else?

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#48

Post by BrandoElFollito »

eutropia wrote: post #13
sidewndr46 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the article, it turns out the one twin who is "more autistic" had a hole in his heart that surgery had to correct. So I suspect the actual issue here is something simpler like a difference in brain development because of the difference in the amount of blood flow.

Isn’t it common to be given a lot of antibiotics when you get a surgery?

Whenever I had (minor) surgery in France, I was given antibiotics "as a shield". I obviously do not know if this helped or not.

Now, French doctors were always very quick to prescribe antibiotics (as a kid I had plenty of them) and it took quite a lot of effort to change their(and parent's) mind. My children got much less, though they were almost never checked for virus vs bacterial infection.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#49

Post by quickslowdown »

hiciu wrote: post #2

> identical twins at opposite ends of the autism spectrum. I understand this is just a figure of speech, but this wording suggests that there are "two ends" of the spectrum and (as I understand it) autistic communities are trying to fight that myth.

Yeah, I would read this and assume the 2 ends of the spectrum are "autistic and not-autistic," considering what the word "spectrum" means.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#50

Post by quickslowdown »

twobitshifter wrote: post #23
astura wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... that's literally the definition of "spectrum" From a few random dictionaries: >2. used to classify something, or suggest that it can be classified, in terms of its position on a scale between two extreme or opposite points. >a range of different positions, opinions, etc. between two extreme points ?????

Yes, that’s true from the dictionary and the article is one place where its use makes sense. However, usually people say “on the spectrum“ to mean someone is a high functioning autistic. That is something that isn’t a helpful definition.

This has always driven me nuts. We're ALL "on the spectrum," if you just stop and think for a moment before saying it. That's what a spectrum is.
Post reply on HN