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350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

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Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#81

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

agentultra wrote: post #45

Everyone is always concerned about scale. But I sometimes wonder if we need to scale down. Are cargo ships full of essential goods or disposable items that will more likely than not enter a landfill without seeing any use at all? We’re really good at over producing items and goods that we don’t need or use. It’s interesting to see businesses try things like this. It might not be efficient or affordable now. But someo…

> Are cargo ships full of essential goods

This article is about a company transporting luxury coffee, chocolate and wine from France - hardly what I would call "essential goods". And given that coffee and chocolate doesn't grow in France, dollars to doughnuts the commodities for those products was originally brought to France on traditional cargo ships.

Totally agree with another commenter, this is simply greenwashing.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#82

Post by jdlshore »

basisword wrote: post #66
cloverich wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where carbon tax helps. Having to pay the true cost of goods helps everyone make better decisions. Maybe, hopefully, it also pushes the needle towards higher quality, more essential items and hence less waste. Yet, "make everything more expensive" is a challenging position to make progress on.

Doesn’t this just drive up the cost for the people who are already struggling to afford these goods?

A carbon dividend pairs effectively with a carbon tax. You give people (not businesses) an equal proportion of the tax collected. People who consume less than the average end up earning more than they spent.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#83

Post by graycat »

One explanation is an old one, MONEY. My understanding is that for a cargo ship of reasonable size, the diesel or black oil fuel to cross the Atlantic can be > $1 million. The wind? Free. And, with a well designed sailboat, the speed can be reasonably fast. And save on the purchase and maintenance costs of steam turbines and big diesel engines and their weight.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#84

Post by __turbobrew__ »

jylam wrote: post #42

"Everything from Grain de Sail brand fine chocolates and organic coffee to cosmetic products, wine, and French fashion house luxury goods were on board." So luxury stuff that no one really needs to get from the other side of the world. There is nothing environmentally friendly about useless stuff shipped from a country 10.000km away. Cocoa and coffee obviously doesn't grow in France, so it already came for somewhere…

Yes, the greenest luxury good is the one which is not consumed. The second greenest luxury good is the one made with supply chains close to home.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#85

Post by wiml »

jdlshore wrote: post #82
basisword wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t this just drive up the cost for the people who are already struggling to afford these goods?

A carbon dividend pairs effectively with a carbon tax. You give people (not businesses) an equal proportion of the tax collected. People who consume less than the average end up earning more than they spent.

How is "carbon dividend plus carbon tax" different from "cap and trade"? C&T seems to have gone very out of fashion, but it also seems to me to be the most equitable approach — I don't follow this closely enough, maybe I'm missing something.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#86

Post by danielharan »

prmoustache wrote: post #69
danielharan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chocolate has to be shipped cool, requiring more energy. That said: more and more producing countries are doing initial processing (roasting and grinding into liquor), and derivatives (powder and butter). Processing cacao in North America means I have to pay to get rid of shell which could be brought back to farms. Hopefully one day I can buy good liquor.

Still less energy than shipping left and right 3 times

It's not clear that shipping the sugar to where the cacao is, then shipping refrigerated chocolate is any better than shipping unrefrigerated cacao mass to the North where it's milled with sugar.

Especially if you look at grid emissions in all those countries. Transport uses energy, but so do milling, tempering and packaging.

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#87

Post by m3047 »

rdtsc wrote: post #20

This could work for luxury goods if the products and the associated marketing reflects it. It has to be on the label - “brought you by a sailboat across the Atlantic”. I could imagine someone paying a large markup for it just like they pay for fancy wine or jewelry. As long as everyone involved in the business understands it and doesn’t drink their own kool-aid, which often happens.

Here's an example:

"Barrels of Jefferson’s Ocean Aged at Sea® Bourbon travel aboard ships that visit ports all around the globe. The constant motion of the sea churns the whiskey, increasing its interaction with the wood of the barrel."

https://jeffersonsbourbon.com/jeffersons-ocean-bourbon/

Re: 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat

#88

Post by toast0 »

rmah wrote: post #80
toast0 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crew consumes fuel. A large sailing vessel and a large container ship probably require a similar number of crew. Labor cost per ton will be huge.

Relative to all oceangoing vessels, there are no large sailing vessels.

That's the point. A large sailing vessel takes the same crew and moves way fewer tons.
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