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I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

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Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#61

Post by bandyaboot »

amichlin wrote: post #41

As a former warehouse volunteer at VCF in Wall, NJ, I can attest that this blog post consists of only conjecture and no facts. Everything was checked for archiving. Everything was offered to anyone who would listen for over a year. Most of the paper found a good home. In fact, a better home as the warehouse is near the ocean and has no climate control. Not a good place to donate paper. It should never have been donat…

> As a former warehouse volunteer at VCF in Wall, NJ, I can attest that this blog post consists of only conjecture and no facts.

The single most important piece of information in the blog post is that he was told the materials were disposed of. That’s either true, or is a lie—I fail to see an interpretation of that that could be called “conjecture”.

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#62

Post by bandyaboot »

amichlin wrote: post #53
cjs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "checked for archiving" mean? Is this collection available to the public in any way?

Checked for archiving means that everything was checked to see if it was already archived. The collection was popular computer magazines that have long ago been archived. Nothing unique, which is likely why the donation was made in the first place. The blog post implies there was something unique about this donation. There was not. If you know anything about the work of the author of the blog post, you wouldn't even…

> The statement that it was thrown away is factually incorrect.

I get coming on here to correct the record, but why the hostility toward the author when the factually incorrect statement was made to him by someone at VCF? Or are you suggesting he’s lying about what he was told?

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#63

Post by opello »

amichlin wrote: post #53
cjs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "checked for archiving" mean? Is this collection available to the public in any way?

Checked for archiving means that everything was checked to see if it was already archived. The collection was popular computer magazines that have long ago been archived. Nothing unique, which is likely why the donation was made in the first place. The blog post implies there was something unique about this donation. There was not. If you know anything about the work of the author of the blog post, you wouldn't even…

Were you party to the review of the material or the disposition of it afterwards in your capacity as a warehouse volunteer?

I only ask because you seem to be relaying details with an air of authority but not engaging with important follow-up comments. The posted link mentions "mostly IEEE related" and "few other sets of titles" which I imagine all being behind the IEEE Digital Library paywall. Even if it's just Spectrum and maybe interesting SIG (Special Interest Group) publications, those being made available freely seems like a win? But this is all just my guessing and hope to find some clarification about what happened if we aren't supposed to take the posted link as fact.

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#64

Post by opello »

Crosseye_Jack wrote: post #40
jazzyjackson wrote: post #16

Sounds like the donation was unsolicited, Jason just expected the thousand pounds of tree pulp to be appreciated by a vintage computer festival?

From X it seems that the donation wasn't unsolicited, they were basically accepting everything they could get their hands on at the time. However due to poor planning the donation was stored near salt water in a non climate controlled warehouse. > https://twitter.com/amichlin/status/1778494138138124432 > "Well, it never should have been accepted in the first place. But literally everything was being accepted at the t…

Seems like amichlin is replying here too!

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#65

Post by jchw »

amichlin wrote: post #41

As a former warehouse volunteer at VCF in Wall, NJ, I can attest that this blog post consists of only conjecture and no facts. Everything was checked for archiving. Everything was offered to anyone who would listen for over a year. Most of the paper found a good home. In fact, a better home as the warehouse is near the ocean and has no climate control. Not a good place to donate paper. It should never have been donat…

Jason Scott appears to have said:

- He donated some stuff.

- He was told the papers were tossed.

That's not conjecture. It could be false, but why would Jason Scott decide to lie about being told this? That just makes no sense. The best thing I can think of is that there was some severe communication breakdown, but if that's the case this is really not a good response, because it implies that Jason is intentionally just making shit up and I don't understand why anyone would assume that.

I am not saying anything regarding the papers having been tossed, and I would like to believe your version of the events where they were not. However, Jason having apparently been told the papers were tossed is fully 100% compatible with that also having not actually happened, and presumably you weren't the one to communicate with Jason in that situation, so how exactly do you know?

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#66

Post by hitekker »

jchw wrote: post #65
amichlin wrote: post #41

As a former warehouse volunteer at VCF in Wall, NJ, I can attest that this blog post consists of only conjecture and no facts. Everything was checked for archiving. Everything was offered to anyone who would listen for over a year. Most of the paper found a good home. In fact, a better home as the warehouse is near the ocean and has no climate control. Not a good place to donate paper. It should never have been donat…

Jason Scott appears to have said: - He donated some stuff. - He was told the papers were tossed. That's not conjecture. It could be false, but why would Jason Scott decide to lie about being told this? That just makes no sense. The best thing I can think of is that there was some severe communication breakdown, but if that's the case this is really not a good response, because it implies that Jason is intentionally j…

@amichlin, do you have a rebuttal to these comments?

My impression is that you hastily defended a former employer, and when questioned, you started making things up.

I think you are actually formerly connected to VCF, since a twitter user (Adam Michlin) sharing your username is currently flaming the OP: https://twitter.com/amichlin/status/1778494138138124432

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#67

Post by justin66 »

amichlin wrote: post #53
cjs wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "checked for archiving" mean? Is this collection available to the public in any way?

Checked for archiving means that everything was checked to see if it was already archived. The collection was popular computer magazines that have long ago been archived. Nothing unique, which is likely why the donation was made in the first place. The blog post implies there was something unique about this donation. There was not. If you know anything about the work of the author of the blog post, you wouldn't even…

Confusing a collection of "mostly IEEE-related but with a few other sets of titles" papers with a collection of "popular computer magazines that have long ago been archived," with "no historical value," seems like exactly the sort of mistake Jason Scott would not make.

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#68

Post by Brian_K_White »

cranky908canuck wrote: post #46
Lerc wrote: post #28

I care about vintage computers and early computing history, because quite a few people I know are aware of this I am gifted old hardware and documentation. I have nowhere to set them up or display them so they go into storage. I would willingly gift them to good homes, I feel my role is as a custodian. I cannot make use of these things, but I can ensure that they continue to exist. I can completely sympathise with th…

'Lerc' comment speaks to the key thing here: there was a miscommunication: Donor: I would like to charge you with care and control of this archival material. Recipient: Thank you for the containers and fuel. What happened then is in the past, no going back. The incident raises the bar for archive recipients ("is this an archive, what can we do with it"). Some archiving orgs now will not accept donations without a mon…

I see no justification for this much benefitv of the doubt. Jason Scott is no rando. Vcf claim to be in the business of preserving such material, or at least recognizing that it should be. The material was topical, and all parties know each other.

Very clearly and with no ambiguity at all, it was vcf who totally failed at their task.

I don't define "their task" as simply "posess and operate an excellent document storage facility", but merely be minimally professional and responsible enough to avoid accepting material they are unable or unwilling to deal with, and if you do accept it and then change your mind, find someone else or go back to the doner, and suck it up until you can undo your mistake.

This is not a "miscommunication". The people involved and the context does not allow anyone to claim anything like that.

A random person didn't dump a truckload of random material on the front lawn of another random person unsolicited.

A famous vintage computer organization accepted a set of vintage computer documents from a famous archivist.

vcf accepted responsibility for the material, and then, I don't even know the right word, they didn't merely fail, that implies trying, what is failure to discharge a responsibility when you don't even try in the first place? What is the excuse for not even so much as iquiring if Jason could possibly just take it back? How much does an email cost?

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#69

Post by soraminazuki »

strict9 wrote: post #31

> However, I was told, they had decided to keep the plastic boxes, and were making use of them. This is more of an insult than a consolation. I'm still in disbelief that they were tossed out rather than offered back or donated elsewhere.

Looking at the response from commenters who say they were affiliated with VCF and the amount of flagged comments here, I’m inclined to believe that it was indeed an insult.

Re: I am no longer attending vintage computer festivals

#70

Post by soraminazuki »

santoshalper wrote: post #58
amichlin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to that as I haven't been involved in two years. But they were there two years ago, so I'll correct myself say almost the entirety of the blog post is false.

So, the author did not donate magazines? The magazines were not disposed of? There were not many asserted facts in the post. Which exact ones were lies?

FYI GP is now claiming they never called the author a liar.

> I offered to privately explain what really happened on Twitter (X) and was blocked as a result and made out to be accusing OP of being a liar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40022739

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