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Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

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Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#31

Post by Tarq0n »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #20
__s wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but saying two people are the same magnitude is very different from saying they have the same level of touch sensitivity Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Assuming we stick to the positive/positive quadrant it's not so bad. This metaphor (which, the spectrum itself is a metaphor, making this a metaphor of a metaphor) is to a 2d space tho, complex numbers are much more comparab…

> Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Only if their magnitude is large; the maximum possible distance between two complex numbers of equal magnitude is double that magnitude. And this limit is independent of the number of dimensions in the space you're working in; no two equal-magnitude vectors are ever farther apart than opposite vectors are. If you stick to the first quadrant / octa…

The question is whether each dimension is equally clinically significant, or equally impactful to quality of life. Talking about magnitude is definitely taking the analogy too far, as temping as it is.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#32

Post by kenjackson »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #20
__s wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but saying two people are the same magnitude is very different from saying they have the same level of touch sensitivity Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Assuming we stick to the positive/positive quadrant it's not so bad. This metaphor (which, the spectrum itself is a metaphor, making this a metaphor of a metaphor) is to a 2d space tho, complex numbers are much more comparab…

> Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Only if their magnitude is large; the maximum possible distance between two complex numbers of equal magnitude is double that magnitude. And this limit is independent of the number of dimensions in the space you're working in; no two equal-magnitude vectors are ever farther apart than opposite vectors are. If you stick to the first quadrant / octa…

I think the point is that the magnitude being the same doesn’t necessarily mean their distance is zero. I think the rest isn’t relevant.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#34

Post by AlexandrB »

__s wrote: post #7
kthartic wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a laymen, isn't the spectrum just 'less autistic tendencies' and 'more autistic tendencies'? Is this a myth, or does the spectrum refer to something else? I was always under the impression that some people could be more autistic than others.

There are multiple dimensions https://getgoally.com/blog/autism-spectrum-wheel Along with many comorbidities (adhd, ocd, depression, etc) which are more likely but not requisite This leads to the saying "if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism"

> "if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism"

Isn't this true for just about any condition? It's not like people with ADHD or depression all behave exactly the same. I understand the urge to avoid categorizing people too broadly, but at the same time making the "taxonomy" of a condition hyperspecific is contradictory to having the label in the first place.

If saying "I have autism" has no descriptive power because this could mean a million different things, it seems like the term needs to be retired or narrowed to a specific set of behaviors/challenges.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#35

Post by iamleppert »

apothegm wrote: post #26
iamleppert wrote: post #24

They are not identical. Both born with different physical problems. How do you call that identical?

Twins can be born with the same genes (because they originated as a single embryo that split), or with different genes (they originated as two separately fertilized embryos). The former are considered identical twins even if you can tell them apart. They’re genetically identical, which scientists find useful in teasing out nature vs. nurture hypotheses. They especially like to compare them against twins with differen…

Isn’t it obvious they aren’t physically identical? They have the same genes but are not identical!

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#36

Post by SiempreViernes »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #20
__s wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but saying two people are the same magnitude is very different from saying they have the same level of touch sensitivity Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Assuming we stick to the positive/positive quadrant it's not so bad. This metaphor (which, the spectrum itself is a metaphor, making this a metaphor of a metaphor) is to a 2d space tho, complex numbers are much more comparab…

> Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Only if their magnitude is large; the maximum possible distance between two complex numbers of equal magnitude is double that magnitude. And this limit is independent of the number of dimensions in the space you're working in; no two equal-magnitude vectors are ever farther apart than opposite vectors are. If you stick to the first quadrant / octa…

"very far" is of course relative: if we have tree vectors, two of length R and one of length 0.99*R, it's not outlandish to call the distance 2R between the two vectors of equal magnitude "very large" compared to the distance 0.01R between two vectors of dissimilar magnitude.

Your last comment is completely incorrect, for a point at (1,1,1,....) each extra dimension adds a constant 1 to the euclidean distance, so that in 500 dimensions a point at (1,1,1,....) is around 22.4 units away from the origin, while in two dimensions it is only 1.4 units away from the origin.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#37

Post by SiempreViernes »

iamleppert wrote: post #35
apothegm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twins can be born with the same genes (because they originated as a single embryo that split), or with different genes (they originated as two separately fertilized embryos). The former are considered identical twins even if you can tell them apart. They’re genetically identical, which scientists find useful in teasing out nature vs. nurture hypotheses. They especially like to compare them against twins with differen…

Isn’t it obvious they aren’t physically identical? They have the same genes but are not identical!

The term is being used in reference to their genes, not their appearance.

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#38

Post by __s »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #36
thaumasiotes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Only if their magnitude is large; the maximum possible distance between two complex numbers of equal magnitude is double that magnitude. And this limit is independent of the number of dimensions in the space you're working in; no two equal-magnitude vectors are ever farther apart than opposite vectors are. If you stick to the first quadrant / octa…

"very far" is of course relative: if we have tree vectors, two of length R and one of length 0.99*R, it's not outlandish to call the distance 2R between the two vectors of equal magnitude "very large" compared to the distance 0.01R between two vectors of dissimilar magnitude. Your last comment is completely incorrect, for a point at (1,1,1,....) each extra dimension adds a constant 1 to the euclidean distance, so tha…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwAD6dRSVyI 3Blue1Brown on visualizing higher dimensions explains it well

Re: Identical twins both grew up with autism, but took different paths

#40

Post by thaumasiotes »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #36
thaumasiotes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Two complex numbers can have the same magnitude & be very far apart. Only if their magnitude is large; the maximum possible distance between two complex numbers of equal magnitude is double that magnitude. And this limit is independent of the number of dimensions in the space you're working in; no two equal-magnitude vectors are ever farther apart than opposite vectors are. If you stick to the first quadrant / octa…

"very far" is of course relative: if we have tree vectors, two of length R and one of length 0.99*R, it's not outlandish to call the distance 2R between the two vectors of equal magnitude "very large" compared to the distance 0.01R between two vectors of dissimilar magnitude. Your last comment is completely incorrect, for a point at (1,1,1,....) each extra dimension adds a constant 1 to the euclidean distance, so tha…

> Your last comment is completely incorrect

How so? Your followup makes no sense.

> for a point at (1,1,1,....) each extra dimension adds a constant 1 to the euclidean distance, so that in 500 dimensions a point at (1,1,1,....) is around 22.4 units away from the origin, while in two dimensions it is only 1.4 units away from the origin.

You're comparing vectors of different magnitudes. You could equally object that (200, 0) is much farther away from the origin than (2, 0) is. That's true, but so what? You're still in a two-dimensional space.

Are you under the impression that the "magnitude" of a vector and its "distance from the origin" are separate concepts? They aren't.

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