Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

whitehouse.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 91 posts

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#61

Post by moralestapia »

malicka wrote: post #24
moralestapia wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Provides good publicity for the political party more inclined to do anything about the root causes (Democrats). This is not only illegal but morally wrong, though.

I disagree — enacting a policy people like and find useful is inherently good publicity. If your city mayors’ initiatives improve your local library, this will make people who visit the library like the mayor more. This doesn’t make improving the library immoral or unethical.

No problem with having good publicity as a consequence of, but as a root cause is what makes it morally incorrect since the political party per se shouldn't be an end in itself. Your words, not mine.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#62

Post by rayiner »

robertn702 wrote: post #16

My biggest issue with these cancellations is that they don't seem to be fixing the underlying issue at all — that you can't default on your student loans. Lenders are incentivized to loan as much out as possible because their risk is so low, and so there is no reason to NOT approve a $150,000 loan to a student earning a degree which will realistically net them $40,000 a year. As soon as you let borrowers default, the…

Since Obama federalized the student loan system, 92% of student loans are federal. So there’s no meaningful difference between default and loan forgiveness—it’s the public’s money either way. And the government will never impose creditworthiness checks on borrowers.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#63

Post by silverquiet »

rayiner wrote: post #59
mostlysimilar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your intelligent career decisions won't insulate you from the under-educated voters putting a despot and charlatan into power. An educated populace is better for everyone.

That story seems like a smokescreen for a straightforward economic conflict: people with college degrees that don’t lead to valuable jobs want the government to take public money and give it to them. They vote for the guy who promises to do that. Voters without college degrees—who will pay for that policy one way or the other, either directly or through inflation—vote for the guy who promises not to do that. Marx wou…

Do you think anyone in the US acts in the interest of the country as a whole? I have very little problem with my tax dollars going to this as opposed to dropping bombs on some hapless country.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#64

Post by silverquiet »

ProblemExplorer wrote: post #17

Schools are not getting the feedback they need to be useful and political tricks like this further distorts the feedback loop. We should really take a few minutes to consider what this means for not just our future but our future generations. I think arguments that go along the lines of "I worked extremely hard to minimize my loans and now I felt betrayed" is missing the bigger evil lurking in the shadows: schools in…

> when the U.S. was enjoying extreme wealth growth right off WWII

So I don't really believe in economics anymore, but wouldn't they say that we are actually much wealthier per capita and more much productive than we were back then?

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#65

Post by rayiner »

silverquiet wrote: post #63
rayiner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That story seems like a smokescreen for a straightforward economic conflict: people with college degrees that don’t lead to valuable jobs want the government to take public money and give it to them. They vote for the guy who promises to do that. Voters without college degrees—who will pay for that policy one way or the other, either directly or through inflation—vote for the guy who promises not to do that. Marx wou…

Do you think anyone in the US acts in the interest of the country as a whole? I have very little problem with my tax dollars going to this as opposed to dropping bombs on some hapless country.

> Do you think anyone in the US acts in the interest of the country as a whole

No, but that’s my point. It’s a basic economic issue between voters with different economic interests. Cash-poor college educated people want government subsidies, and non-college educated people with money don’t want to pay for that. People who make their living doing knowledge work see the value in subsidizing college, people who don’t do knowledge work often don’t see the value and don’t think the government should subsidize it. As Marx would say, each group votes according to its class and economic interests. It’s self-indulgent in the extreme to try and dress that up with some narrative about despotism.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#66

Post by taftster »

silverquiet wrote: post #63
rayiner wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That story seems like a smokescreen for a straightforward economic conflict: people with college degrees that don’t lead to valuable jobs want the government to take public money and give it to them. They vote for the guy who promises to do that. Voters without college degrees—who will pay for that policy one way or the other, either directly or through inflation—vote for the guy who promises not to do that. Marx wou…

Do you think anyone in the US acts in the interest of the country as a whole? I have very little problem with my tax dollars going to this as opposed to dropping bombs on some hapless country.

Sadly, since we don't care about deficit spending, the bombs will be unaffected by this spending.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#67

Post by silverquiet »

rayiner wrote: post #65
silverquiet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think anyone in the US acts in the interest of the country as a whole? I have very little problem with my tax dollars going to this as opposed to dropping bombs on some hapless country.

> Do you think anyone in the US acts in the interest of the country as a whole No, but that’s my point. It’s a basic economic issue between voters with different economic interests. Cash-poor college educated people want government subsidies, and non-college educated people with money don’t want to pay for that. People who make their living doing knowledge work see the value in subsidizing college, people who don’t d…

> As Marx would say, each group votes according to its class and economic interests.

Given the ever increasing concentration of wealth towards the top, either Marx was wrong about this or the proles value something more than money.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#68

Post by [deleted] »

drak0n1c wrote: post #60
Cody-99 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So only the wealthy get to receive higher education. Good one! I know this is HN but this take goes beyond the typical level of unhinged. Honestly it seems like straight up trolling. Someone who received public loans to attend university and who spent 10, 20, or 25 years paying them off at which point the rest was cancelled isn't really irresponsible.

The original mission of aid has been overrun to the point of being self-defeating. Higher ed is an inflated, bloated mess with a steep opportunity cost measured in time, money, and mindset. There are drawbacks to the narrow white-collar expectations and self-sabotaging ideologies (ie degrowth, critical theory). Why not a sensible in-between? Aid should be merit-based. Both statistically and in my experience growing u…

[deleted]

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#69

Post by rhelz »

influx wrote: post #48
elmerfud wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly where is my reimbursement. I was not super wealthy but I prioritized my kids college education and made sure to pay for it to avoid them having to go into debt over it. This produced a, not insignificant hardship, to the family but it was worth it. How do I apply for some of this money? Is this more of the lazy people get free stuff and responsible people who contribute to society gets screwed again? People w…

Just be glad the President can grant free money so that he can be reelected. You wouldn't want the other guy to be in office would you? It's a small price to pay...

sigh it would pain me. But let's face it: if the survival of our democracy depends on the votes of people whose votes can be bought and sold, it's already gone.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#70

Post by ProblemExplorer »

silverquiet wrote: post #64
ProblemExplorer wrote: post #17

Schools are not getting the feedback they need to be useful and political tricks like this further distorts the feedback loop. We should really take a few minutes to consider what this means for not just our future but our future generations. I think arguments that go along the lines of "I worked extremely hard to minimize my loans and now I felt betrayed" is missing the bigger evil lurking in the shadows: schools in…

> when the U.S. was enjoying extreme wealth growth right off WWII So I don't really believe in economics anymore, but wouldn't they say that we are actually much wealthier per capita and more much productive than we were back then?

> wouldn't they say that we are actually much wealthier per capita and more much productive than we were back then?

Wealthier (higher QoL, longer life expectancy etc) and more much productive, yes. However, affordability is lower precisely because everyone is more wealthy, so they demand more compensation (incentive to work), so every person has to now earn even more to afford to pay someone else more.

Globalization has put an upward pressure on wealth globally and has a deflating impact on affordability, which is in contrast to the unique position the U.S. was in allowing its citizens to enjoy extreme wealth growth right off WWII.

So yes, people are wealthier and more much productive, but they can afford less because everyone else are wealthier and more much productive as well and can compete for the same resources better than they were able to before (it's not that exciting to be a millionaire if everyone is also a millionaire).

Post reply on HN