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"Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

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Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#21

The actual report with animated video and english subtitles: https://www.nsia.no/Road/Published-reports/2024-03 I translated some of the norweigan paragraps that include "estetik" but I can't figure out if they mean "they should have used steel" or they mean "the diagonal members should change direction to keep them in compression" or both.

I think this is the quote that is most relevant

> En kombinert stålbjelkebru med betongdekke var mulig, men ble utelukket på grunn av estetikken og begrensningene i veigeometrien under og på brua.

which states that aesthetics and road geometry together ruled out a combined steel and concrete bridge.

there's also:

> Artikkelen beskriver avslutningsvis at det i pre-designfasen var flere retningslinjer knyttet til utformingen av brua. Videre står det at teamet som prosjekterte brua ble påvirket av andre prosjekter på den aktuelle tiden, og at Oppland fylke var et skogsbruksfylke der tre har vært et viktig byggemateriale. Dette, kombinert med fordelene av det lette dekket, medførte at en trebru var det beste alternativet. Kombinasjonen av tre og stål gjorde det også mulig å utforme brua som ønsket, uten ekstra avstivning ved aksene.

But in the end the above just amounts to "they could have built a conventional bridge but wanted something prettier": basically aesthetics contributed to the collapse because it was the primary reason they built something novel.

Had there instead been some site specific geometry that forced a novel solution, one wonders if they had blamed that...

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#22
post #5

Sounds miserably similar to this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_International_Universi... Though the FIU one collapsed within a week of the fatally flawed span first being installed .

[flagged]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-all-female-responsible...

https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/PolitiFact-No-it-was-...

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#23
post #4
post #3

Architects’ first commandment: always prioritize function over form.

Function over form is a false equivalency, a modernist fetish. Architect's first commandment should be to strive to a perfect integration of beauty, usefulness and durability. There are many real world examples, so it's not a trade-off. Plus, that "strong focus on aesthetics" seem to be a throwaway comment in the report, and it is disputed by the design studio who built the bridge.

It presupposes a false _dichotomy_, one that misunderstands the nature of beauty. A building's beauty will in large part be a matter of its _function_. It it not just a matter of decoration, which is important, but does not exhaust the aesthetic concerns of an architect.

The Pantheon in Rome is an especially nice sign of contradiction, but it is hardly alone.

We are human beings, not some consumerist homo economicus that exists merely to eat, shit, drink, and copulate and in a bestial manner. Let us care about the beauty of our environment. This can be done even within means. Beauty is a transcendental. Those who attack it, or insult it, who denigrate it, who dismiss it are misanthropes and enemies of the entire human race.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#24
post #5

Sounds miserably similar to this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_International_Universi... Though the FIU one collapsed within a week of the fatally flawed span first being installed .

[flagged]

The female engineer angle was never true, it was a 4chan hallucination. Something they lied to each other so much they forgot it was a lie

Look up the phone call / voicemail between FIGG engineer and FDOT, in which the FIGG engineer describes the cracking and says it isn't a problem and they're proceeding. The engineer was a man.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#25
post #9
post #3

Architects’ first commandment: always prioritize function over form.

Nah. Have you seen the Sydney Opera House?

Something can be beautiful without sacrificing function. It isn’t “function only”; it’s “function over form”.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#26
post #14

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tretten_Bridge The ironic part is "The bridge replaced a steel truss bridge built in 1895 at the same location". Engineers in 1895 knew how to use steel trusses and built a bridge that lasted 100+ years, and in 2012 they decided to use glued wooden beams and it fell apart in 10 years. Well perhaps Plan Arkitekter and Norconsult can take a trip to the archives and see what the engineers i…

> Engineers in 1895 knew how to use steel trusses and built a bridge that lasted 100+ years

It's a little too strong of a claim. Plenty of poorly designed steel bridges from the 19th century have collapsed as well, despite the superior material.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#27
The idea that a "strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to the failure of a bridge doesn't make any logical sense. Employing a strong focus on aesthetics doesn't preclude also having the necessary focus on stability and safety. Bridges fail because they were not designed or engineered properly.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#28
post #26
post #14

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tretten_Bridge The ironic part is "The bridge replaced a steel truss bridge built in 1895 at the same location". Engineers in 1895 knew how to use steel trusses and built a bridge that lasted 100+ years, and in 2012 they decided to use glued wooden beams and it fell apart in 10 years. Well perhaps Plan Arkitekter and Norconsult can take a trip to the archives and see what the engineers i…

> Engineers in 1895 knew how to use steel trusses and built a bridge that lasted 100+ years It's a little too strong of a claim. Plenty of poorly designed steel bridges from the 19th century have collapsed as well, despite the superior material.

> Plenty of poorly designed steel bridges from the 19th century have collapsed as well

That's true. But I only meant that particular bridge, which did last for 100+ years. So, when the architects and the engineers go to the archives to relearn a few things, they can focus on the ones which haven't collapsed.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#29
post #5

Sounds miserably similar to this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_International_Universi... Though the FIU one collapsed within a week of the fatally flawed span first being installed .

[flagged]

What on earth are you talking about? The engineer of record for the project was a man. And I don't understand the implication of your comment – do you really believe that not only was the engineering team led by women, but they also refused to collaborate with men in any capacity? The project had to be approved by a PE at some point, do you think that a female PE is somehow less capable than a male one?

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#30
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Function over form is a false equivalency, a modernist fetish. Architect's first commandment should be to strive to a perfect integration of beauty, usefulness and durability. There are many real world examples, so it's not a trade-off. Plus, that "strong focus on aesthetics" seem to be a throwaway comment in the report, and it is disputed by the design studio who built the bridge.

It presupposes a false _dichotomy_, one that misunderstands the nature of beauty. A building's beauty will in large part be a matter of its _function_. It it not just a matter of decoration, which is important, but does not exhaust the aesthetic concerns of an architect. The Pantheon in Rome is an especially nice sign of contradiction, but it is hardly alone. We are human beings, not some consumerist homo economicus…

right on!
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