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Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

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Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#21

Post by neonsunset »

Unless you use server-side rendering or JS-only dependency, in which case you do need Node.js, its usage cannot be justified as it is a massive downgrade in every way vs .NET (ASP.NET Core + EF Core/Dapper combo).

Examples of major considerations are security vulnerabilities and dependency hell (both solved long ago in .NET), performance and memory footprint (the average expected difference in application code performance is >10x), and ability to reach performance ceiling with additional optimization, supported deployment targets, the quality of the languages themselves (C# and F#), interop with C/C++/Rust, IDE support, static typing, quality of the libraries in the ecosystem (fewer but much better), etc.

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#22

Post by neonsunset »

pluc wrote: post #8

I know you're not asking about the personality behind the skills, but I'd sooner take a JS dev than a .NET one (even (and maybe especially) that Core runs on Linux), I'd even switch the entire stack to avoid having to deal with Windows talent. The ClickOps mentality in Microsoft-based ecosystems is astounding.

ClickOps? I'm sorry. Node.js tooling, all of it, is worse than CLI experience (arguably you don’t need that much) you get out of .NET save for certain hot-reload edge cases (which is supported, but is subject to constraints expected from a compiled language).

C# is a lower level language that is very accessible but advanced scenarios need the same required reading as e.g. Go which is often misused in systems programming domains.

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#23

Post by yodon »

It's amazing how uninformed the comments are on the .NET ecosystem as of the time of this comment.

The OP states this is intended as an update to a 2016 question, but the responses are largely stuck pre-2016, full of nonsense complaints that haven't been true for the better part of a decade (including imagined OS dependent lock-in, imagined lack of CLI based tools, and etc).

The .NET Core variant doesn't even exist anymore, and hasn't since 2020. It's just .NET, after a difficult planned multi-year effort that .NET core was a part of, to unify into a single cross platform .NET

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#24

Post by dzonga »

.net core is pretty cool. they even adopted a similar api to express if I remember well.

Yeah it's fast too. faster than node. typed etc. but C# is a complicated language. and it keeps adding features. the have awesome tooling in .net world etc.

but you know why javascript / node.js shines. JS is a simple language. of course lisps are simple i.e clojure. but only one other language comes close to the simplicity of javascript -- golang.

but is golang malleable as javascript ?

the only thing that might suck in the js world is tooling. but in terms of server things i.e consume json / transform json which is what informational based applications -- i.e the majority of the apps most of us work in. node.js is unmatched in terms of productivity

so yeah node.js gets you 80% of the results with 20% of the work.

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#25

Post by pier25 »

neonsunset wrote: post #22
pluc wrote: post #8

I know you're not asking about the personality behind the skills, but I'd sooner take a JS dev than a .NET one (even (and maybe especially) that Core runs on Linux), I'd even switch the entire stack to avoid having to deal with Windows talent. The ClickOps mentality in Microsoft-based ecosystems is astounding.

ClickOps? I'm sorry. Node.js tooling, all of it, is worse than CLI experience (arguably you don’t need that much) you get out of .NET save for certain hot-reload edge cases (which is supported, but is subject to constraints expected from a compiled language). C# is a lower level language that is very accessible but advanced scenarios need the same required reading as e.g. Go which is often misused in systems programm…

AFAIK Node doesn't have hot reload.

Front end tooling like Vite does have it but with a Node server you're forced to restart the whole thing (usually with nodemon).

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#26

Post by pier25 »

dzonga wrote: post #24

.net core is pretty cool. they even adopted a similar api to express if I remember well. Yeah it's fast too. faster than node. typed etc. but C# is a complicated language. and it keeps adding features. the have awesome tooling in .net world etc. but you know why javascript / node.js shines. JS is a simple language. of course lisps are simple i.e clojure. but only one other language comes close to the simplicity of ja…

JS kinda sucks for anything complex though.

That's the reason almost everyone has switched to TS and then you lose the malleability and simplicity of JS. At which point why not just use C#?

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#27

Post by pier25 »

yodon wrote: post #23

It's amazing how uninformed the comments are on the .NET ecosystem as of the time of this comment. The OP states this is intended as an update to a 2016 question, but the responses are largely stuck pre-2016, full of nonsense complaints that haven't been true for the better part of a decade (including imagined OS dependent lock-in, imagined lack of CLI based tools, and etc). The .NET Core variant doesn't even exist a…

> with no "Core" variant specifier existing anymore

That's a good point and sorry for the mistake.

In my defense I copied and pasted the title from the previous question and I don't know much about .NET in general.

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#28

Post by pier25 »

neonsunset wrote: post #20
Atotalnoob wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you can use vscode and rider. Rider isn’t free for companies and vscode has some free stuff, but Microsoft came out with a new extension for c# that requires a visual studio subscription. To me, this signals they will be directing the majority of their investment into this, rather than a free extension. The experience isn’t as good in vscode (I haven’t used rider, but it costs money anyway, so still expensive) a…

You do not need "C# Dev Kit", it's nigh useless if you already used plain C# extension, which has the actual good bits you need. Also, Rider is free if you apply for an OSS license (if you use it for FOSS), or have your company pay for it if you use it professionally.

What's the difference between the C# Dev Kit and the C# extension?

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#29

Post by dzonga »

pier25 wrote: post #26
dzonga wrote: post #24

.net core is pretty cool. they even adopted a similar api to express if I remember well. Yeah it's fast too. faster than node. typed etc. but C# is a complicated language. and it keeps adding features. the have awesome tooling in .net world etc. but you know why javascript / node.js shines. JS is a simple language. of course lisps are simple i.e clojure. but only one other language comes close to the simplicity of ja…

JS kinda sucks for anything complex though. That's the reason almost everyone has switched to TS and then you lose the malleability and simplicity of JS. At which point why not just use C#?

and why are you using TS to begin with ? and yes I agree if you're gonna jump on the typescript wagon, why not use C# etc.

types are good ? yeah ... but to a limit. Tests make for better programs than types.

Using values too instead of mutations etc.

Rich Hickey - makes a good point in his the Value of Values talk.

and another point -- someone is gonna mention about node.js libraries being abandoned etc -- I don't know which exactly -- but if you stay in the express ecosystem and create your own middleware instead of just importing everything willy nilly you will go far.

and the major libraries for databases, redis and api stuff have been stable for a long time. Express is still version 4 and has been for a long time.

Countless frameworks in the other language ecosystems have changed a lot since then .net, rails, django etc. new features -- deprecations etc. and you know what has stayed with the same simple API ? Express

Re: Ask HN: Node vs. .NET Core (2024 edition)

#30

Post by neonsunset »

pier25 wrote: post #28
neonsunset wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need "C# Dev Kit", it's nigh useless if you already used plain C# extension, which has the actual good bits you need. Also, Rider is free if you apply for an OSS license (if you use it for FOSS), or have your company pay for it if you use it professionally.

What's the difference between the C# Dev Kit and the C# extension?

The description is somewhat misleading but it comes down to 1. Visual Studio style solution explorer and 2. Visual Studio style tests explorer [0]

While the former may be missed by some, I long ago adapted and prefer to normal folder and file navigation, and for the latter there are other extensions to browser the tests. The ability to run/debug specific tests is already included in the base C# extension, while project management is actually easier via CLI the same way you do it with Rust's cargo (dotnet new {templateName}, dotnet new sln, dotnet sln add/remove, etc.).

[0] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-dotne...

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