H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts • Hacker News Board

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#161

Post by lowenergyphoton » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:19 PM UTC

sys_64738 wrote: post #146

tivert wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So basically you want to extend the luck/financial privilege that those people have had to be able to study in the US to extend to additional advantages for future visa applications. Not sure that I’d clasify that as fair, personally. It's not fair to uproot someone from a life they've already established , just to give someone else a chance. Also, this is a US policy meant to serve US goals. Absolute fairness to s…

H1-B visas are non-immigrant visas so anybody coming in on one knows it's finite then they need to leave after the fact (assuming they don't change status).

On paper it's finite, but in practise everyone on H1-B applies for green card asap to get the I-140 approved, and then the H1-B is not finite, you are cap exempt for extensions until your I-485 comes through

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#162

Post by fragmede » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:22 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #152

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be an h1b. People would be admitted via a points based system like Canada (but stricter) and would then be on a green card path and be granted perm residency after 5y, citizenship after 10. That's of course my pie in the sky 'we can get congress to agree on things' version. If I were president, I would simply make the h1b go to the highest bidder, so the people that enter the US are…

> If I were president, I would simply make the h1b go to the highest bidder The article makes clear that many H1B aspirants are manipulated into indentured servant like conditions and debt. Selling H1Bs would just amplify that class divide. I think the goal of the H1B system is to benefit American labor market, it's not a sort of "Ivy League" that is for elite reproduction.

The stated goal of the H1B system is to allow companies to import high skilled and high quality labor that isn't available in the US market, into the US. That it doesn't behave that way in practice is at odds with the intent of the program.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#163

Post by tivert » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:22 PM UTC

muzaffarpur wrote: post #128

tivert wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[replying to deleted child comment] > Sponsored green cards take like 1.5+ years to process, so someone could be OPT the whole time but the employer would have to get the application rolling quickly after hiring or else risk their employee having to go back to their home country for some period of time when OPT runs out and the green card is approved. Add to that: 1. Some (many?) companies do not file for green cards…

It is not 10. It is lifetime.

> It is not 10. It is lifetime.

Did some policy change in the last 10 years to cause the wait times to go up? Because I just checked the USCIS backlog, and it looks like they're now processing Indian green card applications from 12 years ago, and I've known people who've gotten employment-based green cards in approximately that amount of time.

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-pr...

I did scan some Cato institute blog post that claimed the wait is 134 years, but they're a biased advocacy organization (so have reason to exaggerate for political effect) and what they say conflicts with what I've personally seen.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#164

Post by jdhzzz » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:23 PM UTC

darth_avocado wrote: post #141

karakot wrote: post #117

I only have one proposal. If a company has a layoff in number of thousands, then the company should be barred from h1-b for a certain number of years.

Sounds good in theory, but not at all practical. Apple just laid off 600 employees working on their electric car initiative, they moved employees internally where skills were transferable, but the rest were let go. But in your proposal, they would now not be able to hire for ANY job function on H1B.

Would a 1 year ban for H1B for Apple be that big of a problem after a "significant" layoff?

Or maybe can only apply for up to a maximum of some (10%? 15%? 25%) percentage of the last year's layoffs?

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#165

Post by Nifty3929 » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:23 PM UTC

psychlops wrote: post #142

shermantanktop wrote: post #104

The H-1B system is voluntary indentured servitude. It’s well paid, especially by the standards of the source country. Employers love it. Visa applicants still find the prospect appealing, even if their experience may not be great. But the power dynamics of the situation are not that different from what a migrant lettuce picker in California has to navigate. The lettuce picker actually might have more freedom.

Indentured servitude is without pay by definition.

That is not the case. Indentured servitude is labor that was paid for in advance by some service provided - e.g. passage to another country. Just because payment was received in the past, or that it was in-kind, doesn't mean the labor isn't paid labor.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#166

Post by bedobi » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:24 PM UTC

rvba wrote: post #158

bedobi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, how are they "lax? And "significant issues" like what? According to who? You? Those countries are only afloat because of immigration. Their homegrown economies are uncompetitive ones based on resource extraction and the trades, and their populations are uneducated and unambitious.

Because there are billions of people in Africa, India, Pakistan and so on. And you cant just let them all in. Millions would come even from second tier countries if they could. Look at any war conflict, refugees would come to the western countries too, if allowed.

the context of the thread is highly selective points based visas for professionals which have nothing to do with whatever you're imagining

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#167

Post by afr0ck » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:25 PM UTC

pkoiralap wrote: post #145

terse-broccoli wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you want to extend the luck/financial privilege that those people have had to be able to study in the US to extend to additional advantages for future visa applications. Not sure that I’d clasify that as fair, personally. As you mentioned, they already get multiple chances at a H1-B already. Side note: my understanding is that there’s already a secondary lottery for people who hold a US masters (the adva…

Let's look at a really dumb comparison. You are the owner of a house and you have a tenant person X, that's living in that house. You let person X to live in your house. They in turn, paid you the rent regularly, took care of your house, and never gave you any reason to complain. Personally, person X built a garden in the backyard, got a dog, got married while living in that house and now live with their partner and…

To me what you're saying sounds like slavery. Those immigrants are also humans, just like you, who may fall in love. If they lived 5/7 years in the US (for example, they did a PhD) and met someone and fell in love, it is inhuman and very stupid to me to expect them to think about it and possibly reject the love and the relationship just because they might loose their visa in the future. Imagine telling someone I can't be with you because I might not have a visa in 3 years from now and be kicked out of the country!!!

An immigrant has the right to live a life with dignity and not be deprived from human experience and oppressed and exploited just to have a chance to stay in the country and get a visa. What's shocking to me is that you think such a person is stupid!! Are you okay?

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#168

Post by kelseyfrog » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:28 PM UTC

rvba wrote: post #158

bedobi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, how are they "lax? And "significant issues" like what? According to who? You? Those countries are only afloat because of immigration. Their homegrown economies are uncompetitive ones based on resource extraction and the trades, and their populations are uneducated and unambitious.

Because there are billions of people in Africa, India, Pakistan and so on. And you cant just let them all in. Millions would come even from second tier countries if they could. Look at any war conflict, refugees would come to the western countries too, if allowed.

What does it mean, "second tier", and who gets to decide tier placement?

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#169

Post by jandrese » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:30 PM UTC

undedone wrote: post #160

bedobi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, how are they "lax? And "significant issues" like what? According to who? You? Those countries are only afloat because of immigration. Their homegrown economies are uncompetitive ones based on resource extraction and the trades, and their populations are uneducated and unambitious.

The mess that the huge flood of immigration of all sorts (students, refugees, etc) has created (housing, food banks etc) has been in the news - mainstream news - for months here in Canada.

It's a political problem, but it's not clear that it's an actual economic problem. Immigrants are easy to demonize, so absent anything else political provocateurs tend to default back to complaining about immigration. Real life studies show that immigration is a net positive for the economy.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#170

Post by CPLX » Fri, Apr 12, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

tivert wrote: post #101

terse-broccoli wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you want to extend the luck/financial privilege that those people have had to be able to study in the US to extend to additional advantages for future visa applications. Not sure that I’d clasify that as fair, personally. As you mentioned, they already get multiple chances at a H1-B already. Side note: my understanding is that there’s already a secondary lottery for people who hold a US masters (the adva…

> So basically you want to extend the luck/financial privilege that those people have had to be able to study in the US to extend to additional advantages for future visa applications. Not sure that I’d clasify that as fair, personally. It's not fair to uproot someone from a life they've already established , just to give someone else a chance. Also, this is a US policy meant to serve US goals. Absolute fairness to s…

The problem with your plan is that it essentially grants the ability to determine which people get to immigrate to the admissions committee of private colleges.

If you propose that you have to defend it on policy grounds. I don’t like that idea at all, that decision is the function of a democratically elected government.