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China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

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Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#11

Post by qvrjuec »

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #4
algem wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to have a domestic supply chain independent of other nations. It’s becoming vital for security purposes.

By this way of thinking everything is vital for "security purposes" and you end up with a full autarchy. Food is vital because you can't rely on others to feed your population. And so is energy. And so on. What is really going on though is that the US started a trade war with China and it's just another salvo in this war. Soon the US will declare electric cars from China as a "threat" and ban them, too. Probably the…

...What? There is a spectrum of importance to national security, food and energy are very much on the side of more important, so not sure why you chose those as an example. It's extremely reductive to say any country that imposes limits on trade for its own strategic benefit is an autocracy.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#12

Post by makeitdouble »

Havoc wrote: post #5

I really just hope consumers will have access to both sides. I know people freak out about hardware backdoors but some of the cheap tech coming out of China sure is cool

That won't be that cheap for long though (and I don't see that as a bad thing either)

Looking at Huawei or Xiaomi goods, the quality is there and the prices are also getting noticeably higher accordingly.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#13

Post by zeroCalories »

echelon wrote: post #7
shortsunblack wrote: post #2

What use are chip factories in the United States when you cannot sell them to the largest market of chips that only will become even more larger as Chinese middle class and their consumption grows?

The theory is that the Chinese middle class has already peaked given the population decline, economic woes, and shrinking growth of exports to the West. As but one signal, the recent dumping of Chinese EVs has less to do with industrial superiority and more to do with their own shrinking domestic demand. The Chinese market is saturated and consumer demand has slowed. India's growth is predicted to top China's before…

China is in a weird place that is hard to predict. They have some troubling economic and demographic problems as you said, but also have built up strong tech and manufacturing capabilities. We could easily see China continue to grow in power, even if the middle class continues to be poor.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#15

Post by Kim_Bruning »

shortsunblack wrote: post #2

What use are chip factories in the United States when you cannot sell them to the largest market of chips that only will become even more larger as Chinese middle class and their consumption grows?

Making money is not the primary object.

Currently chips for civilian and military applications often come out of Taiwan.

The strategic and political situation of Taiwan is -fluid. Losing these fabs would be a heavy blow to the west both economically and more importantly qua military defense.

Thus extra fabs in other (western) countries are pro-indicated for this reason alone. It's insurance.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#16

Post by throwv666 »

shortsunblack wrote: post #2

What use are chip factories in the United States when you cannot sell them to the largest market of chips that only will become even more larger as Chinese middle class and their consumption grows?

thats how chinese monster has been created

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#17

Post by philipov »

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #4
algem wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to have a domestic supply chain independent of other nations. It’s becoming vital for security purposes.

By this way of thinking everything is vital for "security purposes" and you end up with a full autarchy. Food is vital because you can't rely on others to feed your population. And so is energy. And so on. What is really going on though is that the US started a trade war with China and it's just another salvo in this war. Soon the US will declare electric cars from China as a "threat" and ban them, too. Probably the…

Banning Teslas sounds like a good idea. Maybe the US should consider leading on that one.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#18

Post by Kim_Bruning »

pi-e-sigma wrote: post #4
algem wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to have a domestic supply chain independent of other nations. It’s becoming vital for security purposes.

By this way of thinking everything is vital for "security purposes" and you end up with a full autarchy. Food is vital because you can't rely on others to feed your population. And so is energy. And so on. What is really going on though is that the US started a trade war with China and it's just another salvo in this war. Soon the US will declare electric cars from China as a "threat" and ban them, too. Probably the…

You have some points re trade war, that is definitely a thing that is going on.

However, the on-shoring of chip production is especially for military strategic purposes. Right now a majority of chip fabs are all in Taiwan, and within striking range of a country that likes to rattle its sabers. Losing Taiwan's fabs would be a problem wrt military supply.

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#19

Post by vundercind »

qvrjuec wrote: post #11
pi-e-sigma wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By this way of thinking everything is vital for "security purposes" and you end up with a full autarchy. Food is vital because you can't rely on others to feed your population. And so is energy. And so on. What is really going on though is that the US started a trade war with China and it's just another salvo in this war. Soon the US will declare electric cars from China as a "threat" and ban them, too. Probably the…

...What? There is a spectrum of importance to national security, food and energy are very much on the side of more important, so not sure why you chose those as an example. It's extremely reductive to say any country that imposes limits on trade for its own strategic benefit is an autocracy.

Autarky, not autocracy. It’s an economic goal of having an economy that can continue to operate fairly well even if foreign trade is restricted. It’s associated (perhaps not exclusively) with fascist movements, which emphasized national independence from the broader world.

(I don’t agree that hedging against potential action by a single major strategic adversary is a strong move toward autarky, however—if, say, Canada had tons of fabs instead of the precariously-perched Taiwan, I bet we’d not be spending so much money on them)

Re: China Tells Telecom Carriers to Phase Out Foreign Chips in Blow to Intel, AMD

#20

Post by KoolKat23 »

echelon wrote: post #7
shortsunblack wrote: post #2

What use are chip factories in the United States when you cannot sell them to the largest market of chips that only will become even more larger as Chinese middle class and their consumption grows?

The theory is that the Chinese middle class has already peaked given the population decline, economic woes, and shrinking growth of exports to the West. As but one signal, the recent dumping of Chinese EVs has less to do with industrial superiority and more to do with their own shrinking domestic demand. The Chinese market is saturated and consumer demand has slowed. India's growth is predicted to top China's before…

Also they're not really "dumping" EV's in Western markets. The automotive market traditionally made low margins like 5%, until EV's where they're now trying to make closer to 30%. They're just sticking to the old pricing model.

Western manufacturers have been caught with their pants down, they operated under the assumption car ownership would become a premium thing, like owning an iPhone. Basically thought they'd have a free lunch fleecing consumers.

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