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H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

theregister.com

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Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#91

Post by bcrosby95 »

Muromec wrote: post #82
Rinzler89 wrote: post #2

Every system who's main job is controlling or gatekeeping a limited resource in high demand will 100% always get abused to some extent for personal gain or for profit. Same with housing. Especially when there's litte to no negative consequences for those caught abusing it. Like why wouldn't you? If you don't abuse it, then you're basically leaving money on the table versus your competitors who do abuse it. Until law…

Wait, one can file fraudlent applications for visa sponsorship, get caught and will not be banned for like 5 years from the system? Why? It makes no sense

I don't know if it's normal, but abuse was so bad this year they did multiple redraws.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#92

Post by kachurovskiy »

abswest wrote: post #83
kachurovskiy wrote: post #79

In Germany visa applicants are evaluated based on merit without a lottery for decade and it's working well. US could do something similar instead of using a hole in the fence but it doesn't look like the decision making system is capable of making hard decisions like that.

what numeric metric do you use to assess that it is "working well" in Germany?

https://www.bamf.de/EN/Themen/Statistik/BlaueKarteEU/blaueka...

I haven't heard of any discontent with the program from locals or applicants. It's growing, too.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#93

Post by throwv666 »

terse-broccoli wrote: post #81
pkoiralap wrote: post #52

Something that I personally feel unfair about the H1B lottery is that it doesn't consider where you live and what you are currently doing. Students that graduate through a STEM degree get to work for 3 years in their OPT (Optional Practical Training). This extends then to them having 3 chances (one per year) at getting the H1B. Now what's unfair is that an employer in the US can apply H1B for employees living oversee…

So basically you want to extend the luck/financial privilege that those people have had to be able to study in the US to extend to additional advantages for future visa applications. Not sure that I’d clasify that as fair, personally. As you mentioned, they already get multiple chances at a H1-B already. Side note: my understanding is that there’s already a secondary lottery for people who hold a US masters (the adva…

[flagged]

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#94

Post by kachurovskiy »

johnnyjeans wrote: post #90
kachurovskiy wrote: post #79

In Germany visa applicants are evaluated based on merit without a lottery for decade and it's working well. US could do something similar instead of using a hole in the fence but it doesn't look like the decision making system is capable of making hard decisions like that.

The US system combines both merit and lottery. The lottery is maintained because it's an effective bottleneck on the volume of applications, which is substantially higher than what Germany is receiving.

When companies only have a 25% chance of approval they'd just submit 4 applicants per position. Most of this volume wouldn't be present if there was no limit.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#95

Post by tivert »

bluGill wrote: post #72
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this isn't true and never was. The reason is that having a lottery is a set of tradeoffs. You sort of corruption-proof the system by not allowing rich industries to monopolize foreign talent. In exchange, since you can't use salary or terminal degree to distinguish, you kinda have to make sure abuse is tamped down as much as possible. The H1B program is extremely important in a country which has 1) an aging, shri…

I wish the rich monopolize it. You really think some foreign person is key - then bid $1million/year salary to that person. You want some cheap labor, then only bid cheap and risk not getting them. Of course this is open for abuse so we need to investigate every instance of someone leaving - if we determine you were mistreating the employee then you pay them the full $1 million despite them finding a job elsewhere th…

> I wish the rich monopolize it. You really think some foreign person is key - then bid $1million/year salary to that person. You want some cheap labor, then only bid cheap and risk not getting them.

I don't think rich industries should monopolize it, but I definitely think they should be forced to pay more.

My personal favorite solution to the H1-B problem is to keep the quotas but remove the indentured servitude aspect. You really need this person? Sponsor them, then treat them well and pay them enough to want to stay with you. Otherwise, they can just leave and get a job like someone with a green card.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#96

Post by malfist »

throwv666 wrote: post #93
terse-broccoli wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you want to extend the luck/financial privilege that those people have had to be able to study in the US to extend to additional advantages for future visa applications. Not sure that I’d clasify that as fair, personally. As you mentioned, they already get multiple chances at a H1-B already. Side note: my understanding is that there’s already a secondary lottery for people who hold a US masters (the adva…

[flagged]

That's a very broad brush you're painting with.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#97

Post by izacus »

rqtwteye wrote: post #59
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this isn't true and never was. The reason is that having a lottery is a set of tradeoffs. You sort of corruption-proof the system by not allowing rich industries to monopolize foreign talent. In exchange, since you can't use salary or terminal degree to distinguish, you kinda have to make sure abuse is tamped down as much as possible. The H1B program is extremely important in a country which has 1) an aging, shri…

From my observation the number of highly qualified H1Bs is a small share of the total number. Most are average or below average that are held captive by Infosys and friends.

How did you make this observation? There's more than 500 thousand H1B holders, how did you analyze them to end up with this claim?

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#98

Post by wing-_-nuts »

pkoiralap wrote: post #52

Something that I personally feel unfair about the H1B lottery is that it doesn't consider where you live and what you are currently doing. Students that graduate through a STEM degree get to work for 3 years in their OPT (Optional Practical Training). This extends then to them having 3 chances (one per year) at getting the H1B. Now what's unfair is that an employer in the US can apply H1B for employees living oversee…

If it were up to me there wouldn't be an h1b. People would be admitted via a points based system like Canada (but stricter) and would then be on a green card path and be granted perm residency after 5y, citizenship after 10.

That's of course my pie in the sky 'we can get congress to agree on things' version. If I were president, I would simply make the h1b go to the highest bidder, so the people that enter the US are, supposedly, the cream of the crop. Yeah, that would make students return home vs someone with more skills and experience. The whole point of the h1b is to bring over people with skills we can't find here in the US.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#99

Post by bdcravens »

ab8 wrote: post #62

Why do they all keep saying H1-B workers are underpaid? The government determines minimum pay for each application. My experience has been that this number is quite high.

Pay is only "high" as it relates to the experience level and the location.

Re: H-1B visa fraud alive and well amid anti-abuse efforts

#100

Post by wing-_-nuts »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #55
commandlinefan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead of a salary ranking/salary threshold Because in spite of what the law actually says, the entire purpose of the H1B visa program is and always has been a way to get mostly adequate people who'll work cheap.

No, this isn't true and never was. The reason is that having a lottery is a set of tradeoffs. You sort of corruption-proof the system by not allowing rich industries to monopolize foreign talent. In exchange, since you can't use salary or terminal degree to distinguish, you kinda have to make sure abuse is tamped down as much as possible. The H1B program is extremely important in a country which has 1) an aging, shri…

>“There is no doubt,” he says, “that the [H-1B] program is a benefit to their employers, enabling them to get workers at a lower wage, and to that extent, it is a subsidy.” -- Economist Milton Freedman
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