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I Lost Faith in Kagi

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Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#131

Post by keyle »

infecto wrote: post #8

I still pay for Kagi for its search but this has kind of been the problem from the beginning with their org. - Search has been a breath of fresh air, I wish they dedicated more time to it. - Orion...is ok? I use it off and on and it is fine but would rather have better search. The premise of the browser is nice but it feels like this could probably be a whole separate company or a purely open source endeavor. It has…

Orion is my daily driver and I hope they don't crush that. It has bugs, but it works.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#132

Post by ceejayoz »

carlosjobim wrote: post #54
arghwhat wrote: post #7

Vlad's interpretation of GDPR is both horribly wrong and very concerning. Personally Identifiable Information includes anything that can be used to uncover a person's identity. An email address is PII, as it can be used to identify which person their data relates to - and they do have data, at the very least a user account and settings but likely also logs. Full names, phone numbers or IP addresses are also PII - if…

An e-mail by itself is not PII, it has to be connected to other personal data. When companies use Stripe for payments, those other personal data are cared for by Stripe. There are people who argue that just the name of a person is PII and they are wrong.

> There are people who argue that just the name of a person is PII and they are wrong.

It's very easy for a name to be PII. I'm quite certain mine is unique, due to hyphenating when I got married.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#133

Post by BadHumans »

reducesuffering wrote: post #64
BadHumans wrote: post #46

> Oh and they own a t-shirt factory. Maybe I'm being pedantic but Kagi doesn't own a T-shirt factory and presenting it as such is a bad faith argument that does make me question the author. They very clearly point out that they worked with a print shop in Serbia to make the shirts.

Idk about "bad faith argument," because even if Kagi doesn't technically own the thing, they literally said "we basically ended up owning a merch production operation end-to-end."

I know I'm being pedantic but there is a difference between a factory and a fulfillment service. When I read "they own a T-shirt factory" I interpret it as a place where T-shirts are made which is a much bigger cost than renting a warehouse for fulfillment.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#134

Post by iamacyborg »

WA wrote: post #93
eviks wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he explicitly said in his email that "Personal emails are PII.", so how is that a defence of his previous position?

I re-read again. You are right, he says "personal emails are PII" in this email. In the original post however he dismisses the whole GDPR data request process as "we don't need this, because you can provide fake data". Point is: if the business requests an email address, many people will provide their real email adress and your business needs to document this process under GDPR. I just checked. The signup form doesn'…

>If a business is really GDPR compliant, it will offer a download option for stuff like user settings and so on.

I've made a bunch of SAR's, including pre-GDPR and I've never received one that contained my user settings, so that seems pretty normal.

The whole PII convo seems incredibly asinine though, "PII" is not a thing in the GDPR. Personal data is[1], but that's not the same thing.

If Kagi keep a record of searches performed by a user, that's something that a SAR should be used for, but the whole convo just misses the mark entirely.

[^1]: See article 4.1 https://gdpr-info.eu/art-4-gdpr/

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#135

Post by ceejayoz »

rsynnott wrote: post #119
tqwhite wrote: post #49

[flagged]

Oh, ffs, is this going to be the new thing, now? People pretending to read articles by feeding them to an AI and believing whatever old nonsense it spits out? I do think the "humanity is doomed" angle with AIs is overplayed, but okay, yeah, if people are going to do that, maybe humanity _is_ doomed. If you read the article, you will discover that your magic robot is mistaken.

I'm seeing it more and more, and it's depressing. Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38612300

> Per ChatGPT the government agency that can sue you for false advertising is FTC, not DMV.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#136

Post by Tomte »

go88faxme wrote: post #75

That is why I pay duckduckgo which include vpn. I also run my own searxng. I used to subscribe Kagi last year. But after researching I came to the same conclusion as Tomte. Nothing unusual. Just business. DDG already is Kagi with solid business and proven privacy (almost anyway, I know about their Microsoft connection). DDG interface need improvement though.

Just a small correction: I'm not the article's author, I don't really have a conclusion, and I don't see the mail exchange as quite so damning as most commenters here. Although you should really stop mailing when someone asks you to.

I was posting this mostly to get a sense what others think about this, since I have only heard good things about Kagi so far, and thought about subscribing last month (but didn't, yet).

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#137

Post by laborcontract »

infecto wrote: post #8

I still pay for Kagi for its search but this has kind of been the problem from the beginning with their org. - Search has been a breath of fresh air, I wish they dedicated more time to it. - Orion...is ok? I use it off and on and it is fine but would rather have better search. The premise of the browser is nice but it feels like this could probably be a whole separate company or a purely open source endeavor. It has…

Kagi’s killer feature is somehow managing to get literally every post about them featured on the front page of HN.

If they fail with all of the free marketing they’ve been gifted by this community I can only shake my head.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#138

Post by fireflash38 »

infecto wrote: post #125
Dayshine wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re the t-shirts: last time I checked the were private equity not VC and priced their product for profitability not growth. Would you be upset if they had just donated that excess to charity?

So if I understand your comment, you are suggesting that they went and raised money to make t-shirts? Not upset in the slightest, I love Kagi search and want to see it continue. Merch is a solved problem and there was no reason to bring it in-house and make such a big announcement around it.

Maybe they wanted to make T shirts. Who knows. I don't get why people are up in arms about it.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#139

Post by mediumsmart »

iowahansen wrote: post #23

Happy Kagi user here. I'm gladly paying $25 per month because of all their AI features, which work well for me overall. Yes, I could set up API keys on OpenAI, Anthropic, Google and Mistral and get a similar experience for less, but I prefer the convenience of their interface and have clean search results bundled into the experience. I will continue to recommend them and hope that T-Shirt becomes available soon.

Me too and I also happily support Orion and using the RC as a default browser.

Kagi is for a subset of the internet and specifically for the part that has content. The good parts of cyberspace if you like. OP seems to be looking for something bigger like someone they can trust to replace Google and save the internet as well. For that search I say good luck sailor

(see, that is the good thing in Kagi too - you can downvote ;)

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