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I Lost Faith in Kagi

d-shoot.net

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Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#71

(1) I helped somebody start a hobby shop years ago, he was having trouble getting the bank loans to start it and I asked him if he’d consider raising equity, the next day he asked if I was serious, I told him I would put something in if he found some other investors and that was what happened. He was successful about building a community around the store but not successful at the paperwork so it turned out we had not…

> (2) If you are working on search in 2024 and you are serious you’re going to be using A.I. Pretty sure Marginalia doesn't use AI and to the best of my knowledge Viktor hasn't written about plans to do so. But maybe he's not serious because it sure seems like he's having fun!

Isn't Marginalia playing a completely different game from Kagi? AFAIK, Marginalia isn't trying to be a general-purpose search engine.

PS: Lovely username =)

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#72
post #35

I stopped reading once I realized it was just a rant about their business. Why would I care? Their search is better, it's worth what I pay, if it stops being worth the money I'll stop paying. I could care less how their business is run. If I was investing I might look closer, until then, the maximum I have at risk is the $100 or so it costs a year, which I'm comfortable with. Did I miss something more damning later i…

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Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#73
Lori seems (from the blog post and the subsequent email chain with the CEO) to be unnecessarily combative and most definitely too emotionally invested in Kagi.

You're paying, what, 10, 25 USD - are you getting a good service for it? If not, unsubscribe, if yes, what's the problem? Sounds like they're profitable now, so little risk of the service dissapearing.

Unnecessary drama by people who live for drama. My only advice for Vlad would be to not get caught up in it.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#74
I didn’t know about the T-shirt thing and I didn’t know about Brave either. The email stuff is also new to me and I have zero interest in it.

At the end of the day, Kagi was a way for me to filter out certain sites and raise/lower others. To be honest I’ve considered turning off the ranking modifications, I often have to scroll to find the business I’m searching for’s website because I’ve up-ranked SO/GitHub/HN and the like. It’s more frustrating than useful. I wish there was a way to up-rank the “definitive website for a brand” when I search.

Furthermore, the lack of local results is painful. I just have to go to Google to find the restaurant/business in my town since Kagi seems unable/unwilling to do that. And in that vein, all my !bangs seems to have disappeared which is frustrating, even more so since on mobile it won’t save new ones (last time I tried) and manually going to Google gets redirected to Kagi due to the way their extension (has to?) works.

I’ve been paying for a while now and while the AI doesn’t bother me (I don’t use it) the Brave stuff turns me off massively. I don’t know how I’ll decide but I found this post (and the emails the founder sent) very informative.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#75
That is why I pay duckduckgo which include vpn. I also run my own searxng. I used to subscribe Kagi last year. But after researching I came to the same conclusion as Tomte. Nothing unusual. Just business. DDG already is Kagi with solid business and proven privacy (almost anyway, I know about their Microsoft connection). DDG interface need improvement though.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#76
> First of all, as a project, Kagi stretches itself way too thin. "Kagi" isn't just Kagi Search, it's also a whole slew of AI tools, a Mac-only web browser called Orion, and right now they are planning on launching an email service as well.

> Like most search now Kagi has chosen to include Instant Answers that are AI generated, which means they're often wrong, as well as a "Universal Summarizer" tool, that again is more of the same old AI bullshit.

I agree that Kagi should focus their efforts on delivering the best possible search experience (the image search is horrendously slow at times). But as for the above-mentioned AI tools, I love and use daily. For a short question style query, most of the time, the quick answer is all I need. Universal Summarizer is excellent at summarizing the uncountable YouTube videos that my friends send to me.

> At one point someone suggested the idea that searching for suicide-related terms should bring up a helpline, and he rejected that idea because it would be "biased" (I guess towards not wanting people to kill themselves).

Why is the so hard to accept for some people that not everything should push a message? If I want to know about a controversial topic, I need results about it, not a lecture. Their responsibility is to serve me good results.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#77
post #49

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But your AI is... wrong. The article contains clear criticisms of search quality and privacy concerns around a CEO who says things like "people who really need anonymity are very rare. probably elss than a 100 in the entire world."

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#78
The T-shirt thing is dumb and a waste of funds, but TFA describing it as "owning" a T-shirt factory is an exaggeration that makes me question most of the framing of the rest of the article. They partnered with an existing entity in Serbia, what they did set up was the means to distribute them. Still not a great look and definitely still a waste of funds, but if every criticism takes this same form—take a legitimate criticism and blow it out of proportion with exaggerated language—then it's important to take the article with plenty of salt.

My own experience has been that what I get month to month is worth what I pay. If the project is sustainable, then I'll get to enjoy it into the future. If not, I'll get to enjoy it while I can.

A search engine isn't like an email provider or even a web browser, there's basically no lock in that makes transitioning later difficult if something changes for the worse.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#79
Good write-up, I am taking it somewhat with a grain of salt since I am not really invested in this enough to try to verify it for myself, but unfortunately it doesn't really feel like a huge shock either.

Kagi Search is at the very least intriguing, though I honestly didn't find the results very impressive; they seemed alright, but nothing spectacular. The thing that is frustrating is, Google has a massive index, but searching it is an exercise in frustration because it feels like it is basically rewriting your query. Even using "" and + no longer seems to be good at ensuring certain things appear in the results, and so I sometimes try, in desperation, to simply repeat the term I want to emphasize multiple times in the query, which finally sometimes allows me to find things I already know exists. God forbid you wanted to find something you didn't know existed, because in that case, you might never realize Google is fucking up what you're looking for; it has the answer, but it's hidden in a sea of Google-funded blogspam. What a mess.

Will there ever again be a profitable search engine that works as well as Google used to? The answer might be no, and this bums me out.

> And he is very, very much the type that believes "not everything is political"

Well, at least we agree on one thing, I have always felt the "everything is political" angle was one of those semantic technicalities, kind of like saying "actually, the glass is always full, just sometimes it's full of air". The lack of a well-defined boundary between "political" issues and non-political issues should not be used as an excuse to drive politics and politically-charged discussion into otherwise rather mundane and apolitical things. I suppose it's not really that important, but this is one of those Internet-era brainrot issues I dislike most. Of course, maybe this is actually trying to make a more nuanced point, but it being phrased like this activated my "uhm, actually" response impulse.

Re: I Lost Faith in Kagi

#80
What I sense here is the same phenomena as when a famous artist gets a fan that turns into a hater that maybe turns into a stalker, but this time it is a small company that gets this kind of attention and zeal.

There's some kind of psychological instinct that makes some people think that they are owed something and have some kind of personal relation to somebody famous or in this case a company, a kind of familiarity that is just one way. The author of course wouldn't direct this kind of attention towards Google or any other huge company, because they understand that there is no relationship between him and them. But now when it's a small company, there is a short circuit. Just like stalkers usually direct their attention to female performers, and not to gangster rappers or a rock band.

Of course there will be nothing that Kagi as a company, or the people behind Kagi could do to please the author. When in "hater mode", exactly everything the other part does or says will be turned and twisted into something bad. Just read the e-mail exchange that was posted.

With that said, Kagi is still the best search engine around and if they someday won't be, it's as easy as unsubscribing.

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