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Mental health in software engineering
341–350 of 440 posts
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#342I'm not terribly convinced that software engineering is harder on someone mental health than being a doctor, lawyer, sales, engineer, professional athlete, teacher, or any other white collar profession is. All of these have their specific stressors, all of these professions have loads of articles about how people are leaving these professions due to how hard they are. All of these jobs tend to lead to them consuming…
> >You cannot take a sick day by telling your team, “I have mental issues and need a day off.” I'm in an environment (military) were we actively work to prevent this. I have lots of kids (18-20yo) with mental health issues that are not helped by being allowed to take time off so casually. Our mental health experts want to keep people working because having them sit at home drinking/gaming does nothing. I have seen ki…
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Re: Mental health in software engineering
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm waiting patiently for the day when I encounter the first European on an American website who understands that Europe sees the American work standard as absurdly high, that on the other hand Americans see the European wealth standard as absurdly low, and uses this information to not derail working conditions discussions with suggestions that violate the premise of sacrificing a third of their income for the last d…
Americans need that extra money to cover higher out-of-pocket healthcare costs. That's not necessarily a reliable indicator of wealth.
If you had read the data before commenting you would have noticed that it is all PPP-adjusted.
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only because programmers use up thier artistic juices at work. Plenty of my friends who are payroll or work in warehouses do not have any mental investment into work and use that energy outside of work to write, quilt, or do stimulating activities of thier own choice. For me after work I put on Judge Judy and let my brain rot
Indeed! Software development is both knowledge, and creative work, but the industry treats us like replaceable cogs in an assembly line, which is NOT knowledge or creative work. We even utilize work tracking systems made FOR assembly line work, like kanban. We KNOW that using your brain like that leads to mental exhaustion, in exactly the same way we know a tradey kneeling while they do carpet all workweek will have…
This is how I feel. But I’ve had enough. I’m seriously considering leaving the field, it doesn’t bring me joy anymore.
I think there are blue collar jobs that aren’t too hard on your body that have some of the elements we enjoy in SE while having more concrete results (and a clear “it is done” point). I’m personally looking into HVAC installation and maintenance: some engineering, some tech (computers are everywhere), a shortage of qualified people and good long term trends, the option to run your own service business… it seems saner than wha lt SE has devolved into. But the grass is always greener so who knows.
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#345In almost 30 years of software engineering, I came to the conclusion years ago that most deadlines were entirely arbitrary. The business isn't going to fail if you slip a week, or frequently even six months and if it does its probably not the fault of engineering unless its so dysfunctional as to repeatably blow through its own delivery estimates. Sure there are regulatory deadlines, customer POC or delivery deadline…
> I came to the conclusion years ago that most deadlines were entirely arbitrary. To add to this, many manager/leaders assume some kind of deadline is needed for every tasks. They themselves manage their schedule by timeboxing and setting arbitrary due dates, feel extremely productive doing so, and expand that insight to the whole business. The base assumption is a task won't be done in a timely manner if there isn't…
As an engineer I agree, but I’ve had the misfortune of managing poorly performing teams composed of unfit individuals that I couldn’t get rid of and they would do absolutely nothing if I didn’t arbitrarily give them some deadlines at least now and then.
It goes both ways.
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
5 vs 10 days is still ridiculous imho. I've just read an overview about the us system [0], and it does seem rather absurd, when you're looking at it from a German perspective. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_leave
I’m in Australia and get 10 days. However, at my company, I could use all 10 at once without having to see a doctor. Can you do that in your company in Germany?
No, you need to see a doctor if it's more than 3 days, though I don't find that much of a problem in practice, even for mental health stuff.
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I came to the conclusion years ago that most deadlines were entirely arbitrary. To add to this, many manager/leaders assume some kind of deadline is needed for every tasks. They themselves manage their schedule by timeboxing and setting arbitrary due dates, feel extremely productive doing so, and expand that insight to the whole business. The base assumption is a task won't be done in a timely manner if there isn't…
As an engineer I agree, but I’ve had the misfortune of managing poorly performing teams composed of unfit individuals that I couldn’t get rid of and they would do absolutely nothing if I didn’t arbitrarily give them some deadlines at least now and then. It goes both ways.
I hear you. I see those more as checkpoints than deadlines though.
Even with highly self managing people, it's always safer to have some idea of how much time it could take, and check for some kind of status midway to know if it's too different from the rough estimate (sometimes you learn they didn't touch the task for various reasons)
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s a certain type of person that always has to comment whenever anyone says they have it hard by pointing out how actually those problems are nothing compared to X. It’s like a weird obsession with having to win the suffering competition.
It's a counterbalancing perspective that leads to healthy moderation. If you live in a bubble of 16 year olds gifted new brand new cars and you complain openly how yours got dented, it's only fair that everyone else outside of that bubble rightfully calls you out and tells you to appreciate what you have.
You are the worst kind of person when it comes to mental health. Pretty insufferable “as a doctor, it’s harder!”
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who crossed over from medicine, I can attest that software engineers have it very very good. Appreciate what you have. I accept everyone's personal experiences with bad management, unreasonable timelines, and uninspiring projects, but those things are everywhere. Now add in patients and their families having the worst days of their lives in your presence day after day, high-pressure decision making, not ge…
What are your goals with this comment? What, do you estimate, has been your outcome? If you want to bring medical profession stressors to light, go right ahead. This is an article about a real phenomenon. Not every complaint must be universal or superordinate. You don't sound "insensitive," you sound juvenile. If your profession is harmful to practitioners, perhaps attempt to cultivate solidarity instead of actively…
Their goals are to self insert themselves and how oh so hard they have it.
Remember anything you experience, there will always be some wanker trying to one up you or dismiss you
Re: Mental health in software engineering
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
And at the end of the day this is exactly the attitude that prevents people from asking for a day off. It's wrong in medicine and it's wrong here. The attitude we should have is: yes, Mr. Successful Boss Man, you are a better human than me: you are more disciplined, don't have a problem with anxiety while dealing with a lot more stress, make more money and even look better. But these facts do absolutely nothing to ch…
You should always be advocating for better hours and more of the rewards from your work. I support that. What makes me take it less seriously is framing it as a crisis in mental health. As much as people don't like comparisons the marketplace for our labor is inherently comparative, and people will optimize for the most money with the least hours/stress. I get that I'm providing anecdata but like I've said in previou…
Excluding this one sentence in the article
> Software Engineers and Tech co-founders, like us, are more prone to hitting the lows.
I don't see where anyone was comparing software engineering/engineers to another profession. I certainly don't see where it was proclaimed a crisis.
I don't think it's productive to tell people others have it worse when they are promoting a discussion around mental health. I also don't think being well paid and having what appear to be great working conditions preclude you from having mental health issues.