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Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

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Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#181
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boss of ARM China was fired by the company board, decided he has a different opinion on the matter, changed the locks to the office and just stopped communicating with the rest of the company. The chinese courts sided with him, then when SoftBank acquired them, the company staff just left, took all the IP and started a new company. https://www.semianalysis.com/p/the-semiconductor-heist-of-th... https://www.datace…

To be fair it wasn’t actually retarded because no one could foresee China stealing arm’s IP.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. China has taken that to heart lol.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#182
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair it wasn’t actually retarded because no one could foresee China stealing arm’s IP.

is that sarcasm? China and stealing IP are like cookies and milk

More like tea and baozi :P

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#183
post #76
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP is communist like I'm Chinese. They're just run-of-the-mill nationalist authoritarians.

Which communist regime has not been nationalist authoritarian? Yes, in theory it is different thing but somehow in practice it always ends up like this.

Well, there is authoritarianism and then there ‘a spy in every phone, internet Great Wall, re-education camps, social credit score’ authoritarianism no?

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#184
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the feeling, but on the other hand I don't think these are good examples because these people have gotten filthy rich and it's not clear to me if we actually need such accumulation of wealth. There's probably a healthy cap somewhere, the same way power is capped in the government.

I agree with your extreme wealth sentiment, but a government-imposed cap on wealth would be a much much bigger problem overall.

Especially since ‘more equal’ politicians and their friends will of course be exempt.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this is a forum where some degree of openmindedness is encouraged. There have been far many more economic and capital systems on this rock than just American capitalism.

Sure, then by all means share your evidence or data for a successful foreign state owned enterprise vs private enterprises in that country and other countries

Aramco

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#186

I was listening to Nicolai Tangen's interview with Alibaba co-founder Joe Tsai: https://www.nbim.no/en/publications/podcast/alibaba-co-found... Alibaba co-founder and Chair: China, Jack Ma, AI and basketball And while smart and sympathetic, I cannot help to think that Alibaba is a company of the past belonging to a time of a certain US-China order that is no more. The future of Chinese tech belongs to companies that…

What is the irr for Softbank's investment in Alibaba? If given another chance would they do it again? I believe the answer is yes, so there is no lack of risk capital. Is China willing to pay for talent? Absolutely. Given these two factors I think China can climb the technology ladder. Just a question of time.

However this doesn't mean China's GDP will get back to fast growth. Its economy is constrained by demand, not supply. Anyone who has experience with Chinese elders would know how thrifty they are no matter how much wealth they have.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one doubts that Chinese people work incredibly long hours. They do so because there’s been a strong link between input and output. The harder you work, the wealthier you get. That has been incredibly motivating … so far. In an economy that isn’t growing quite so fast, people might not see the same returns for their labour that they did between 2001-19. They might not work as hard. That’s speculation though. What w…

there is zero link between hard work and wealth. There is a link between wealth and exploitation.

If you work more hours and take more overtime, you will make more money you can use to build wealth.

Seems like a clear link.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK (“Seeing like a State”), that’s specific to the Leninist modality. I very well could be misinformed, but, the book mentions essentially a moment where democratic-socialism was co-opted by authoritarian communism (Leninism), so that’s what the world ended up with.

That's not even in Leninism, no. Read Lenin's "State & Revolution" and you will definitely come away with a different impression -- he speaks openly about the abolition of the authoritarian state and a radical democracy... just not a parliamentary one. Though clearly what happened in the USSR in the 20s was something different from what he wrote. What you saw in Russia in that period was a response to an ongoing civi…

For sure, there is more nuance that happens here. Some of what the early Soviet government authorized during the Russian Civil War with the Whites was not all that different from what Lincoln authorized for the Union during the American civil war. So I give some leeway to Lenin on that. For sure, Lenin never intended Stalin to get power. After all, Lenin made Stalin party secretary general or something like that, which was supposed to be a joke position with no real authority or minimal amount of power. Pretty much after the Russian Civil War, Lenin was pretty much perpetually sick and pretty much couldn't see his interpretation to the end. So, I do think had Lenin lived, the USSR would have been much different than what we saw, however I don't know if it would been much better, a little better or worst. That would take engaging in too many hypothetical of history. But I think it is fair to say, we can't graft what the USSR became under Stalin as to what the USSR would have been if Lenin would have lived.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even in Leninism, no. Read Lenin's "State & Revolution" and you will definitely come away with a different impression -- he speaks openly about the abolition of the authoritarian state and a radical democracy... just not a parliamentary one. Though clearly what happened in the USSR in the 20s was something different from what he wrote. What you saw in Russia in that period was a response to an ongoing civi…

For sure, there is more nuance that happens here. Some of what the early Soviet government authorized during the Russian Civil War with the Whites was not all that different from what Lincoln authorized for the Union during the American civil war. So I give some leeway to Lenin on that. For sure, Lenin never intended Stalin to get power. After all, Lenin made Stalin party secretary general or something like that, whi…

I personally subscribe to the Trotskyist analysis that the root cause of the rot that led to Stalinism was the isolation of the revolution in one country, and nothing Lenin could have personally have done would have made a difference once the German revolution failed. They were politically and economically isolated, and unable to effectively administer governance, and if it hadn't been Stalin's brutal form of dictatorship, the state would have either fallen apart or some other "Socialism In One Country" dogma + authoritarianism would have entered the fray.

Stalin rose through the ranks by being a seemingly "competent" administrator who restored the power of the old Tsarist bureaucracy to "get things done."

But in general, Lenin gets a bad rap for the awful things his successor did.

You'll note that Putin admires Stalin but loathes Lenin. Even bizarrely singling Lenin out for his positions on Ukraine and the national question etc in his crazy speech justifying their aggression on the eve of their invasion.

It's a horrible tragedy of history in which millions died and all of eastern Europe fell under a terrible dark iron curtain which took the name "communism" but the name is effectively irrelevant. What it really was was a broken down highly authoritarian single party state that used the badge of "socialism" to lend itself legitimacy while doing very awful things in the name of Russian nationalism, certain individuals, the Party, etc. etc. Kleptocratic clique under the guise of a revolutionary state.

As we can see in China today the actual economic political model doesn't even matter. They'll use the name "communism" even when what they're doing is absolutely savagely market driven, or something else, like the quasi-theocracy in North Korea.

What they labelled as socialism in the East bears almost no resemblance to what socialists in the West advocated. But the label of "communism" will forever be marred by what these people did.

EDIT: A good classic book on this topic is "Leninism under Lenin" by Marcel Liebmann (https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/908-leninism-under-leni...) -- now, whether that old book can stand the test of time now that more historical records from that period are open, I don't know. I'd be curious to see a (non-ideologically motivated) Russian historian with access to records from the Revolution take it apart.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1975/xx/liebman.html

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, then by all means share your evidence or data for a successful foreign state owned enterprise vs private enterprises in that country and other countries

Aramco

Aramco’s not a perfect example, as it was built up as a private corporation, and only nationalized as a relatively mature corporation. It also has a state-sanctioned monopoly on a very low-cost, high-price commodity. On the other hand and to be fair to Aramco, the Venezuelans managed to make a mess of their state oil monopoly.
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