Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions • Hacker News Board

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#11

Post by selimthegrim » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 11:59 AM UTC

hackerlight wrote: post #9

londons_explore wrote: post #7

The market need for cheaper solar cells seems to have evaporated, since the vast majority of the cost of solar projects these days is always in labour/land/wiring/inverters/grid connection/maintenance contracts. That means saving a bit of money on the panels in return for lower efficiency is never a good deal.

Some are trying to combine perovskite with silicon solar cells because they specialize at capturing different wavelengths. So-called tandem solar cells.

I wonder what happened to singlet fission cells and other things trying to get around the SQ limit

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#12

Post by cogman10 » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:01 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #7

The market need for cheaper solar cells seems to have evaporated, since the vast majority of the cost of solar projects these days is always in labour/land/wiring/inverters/grid connection/maintenance contracts. That means saving a bit of money on the panels in return for lower efficiency is never a good deal.

It's even worse, perovskite degrades faster than silicon cells so you are getting lower efficiency short life cells. Tons of money is being invested in trying to fix the lifespan problem.

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#13

Post by c2h5oh » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:14 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #7

The market need for cheaper solar cells seems to have evaporated, since the vast majority of the cost of solar projects these days is always in labour/land/wiring/inverters/grid connection/maintenance contracts. That means saving a bit of money on the panels in return for lower efficiency is never a good deal.

Ground/roof solar is still >60% panels around here

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#14

Post by hackerlight » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:15 PM UTC

ElevenLathe wrote: post #10

londons_explore wrote: post #7

The market need for cheaper solar cells seems to have evaporated, since the vast majority of the cost of solar projects these days is always in labour/land/wiring/inverters/grid connection/maintenance contracts. That means saving a bit of money on the panels in return for lower efficiency is never a good deal.

If the materials are cheap enough, we might be able to build them into other stuff that was going to use labor anyway (shingles, asphalt, siding, etc). No idea what the economics of this look like though, and electricians (a pretty expensive form of labor) will need to be involved no matter what, but at least theoretically cheaper cells can also deal with labor costs.

Like solar fences: https://next2sun.com/en/solar-fence/

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#15

Post by mensetmanusman » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:25 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #7

The market need for cheaper solar cells seems to have evaporated, since the vast majority of the cost of solar projects these days is always in labour/land/wiring/inverters/grid connection/maintenance contracts. That means saving a bit of money on the panels in return for lower efficiency is never a good deal.

Labor costs are less when the weight is 10x less.

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#16

Post by KeplerBoy » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:30 PM UTC

hackerlight wrote: post #14

ElevenLathe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the materials are cheap enough, we might be able to build them into other stuff that was going to use labor anyway (shingles, asphalt, siding, etc). No idea what the economics of this look like though, and electricians (a pretty expensive form of labor) will need to be involved no matter what, but at least theoretically cheaper cells can also deal with labor costs.

Like solar fences: https://next2sun.com/en/solar-fence/

Solar panels are already cheaper than wood, which is amazing.

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#17

Post by yareal » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:39 PM UTC

As an outsider, what's the appeal of PeSC? The paper says they are less efficient and harder to manufacture, but also that they are the "next generation".

I would have thought the next generation would be more efficient or easier to manufacture or both.

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#18

Post by specialist » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:42 PM UTC

ElevenLathe wrote: post #10

londons_explore wrote: post #7

The market need for cheaper solar cells seems to have evaporated, since the vast majority of the cost of solar projects these days is always in labour/land/wiring/inverters/grid connection/maintenance contracts. That means saving a bit of money on the panels in return for lower efficiency is never a good deal.

If the materials are cheap enough, we might be able to build them into other stuff that was going to use labor anyway (shingles, asphalt, siding, etc). No idea what the economics of this look like though, and electricians (a pretty expensive form of labor) will need to be involved no matter what, but at least theoretically cheaper cells can also deal with labor costs.

Ya, that's my take too. Continuing R&D on alternatives like perovskite might open up new use cases. Like using transparent solar cells as windows. It's worth investigating.

Bonus, it keeps scientists employed, maintaining our capacity.

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#19

Post by SquareWheel » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 12:50 PM UTC

yareal wrote: post #17

As an outsider, what's the appeal of PeSC? The paper says they are less efficient and harder to manufacture, but also that they are the "next generation". I would have thought the next generation would be more efficient or easier to manufacture or both.

As I understand it, silicon cells have largely been optimized to near their peak potential. There's not much room left for improvements at this point.

Organic and perovskite cells have a higher potential efficiency. Just like was the case with silicon, it will take years of development and incremental improvements to see higher efficiencies in these technologies. Silicon cells were also not very good at the start of their development.

In that sense perovskite has the potential to be the next generation of solar cell. New developments, such as the one demonstrated in the linked paper, are just a step towards that ultimate goal of more efficient solar.

I'm not an expert in this field, so please feel free to correct any mistakes I've made.

Re: Roll-to-roll fabricated perovskite solar cells under ambient room conditions

#20

Post by myself248 » Thu, Apr 11, 2024, 1:14 PM UTC

Ovonics was doing roll-to-roll solar cells in the 1980s, were they not? This is exciting if the technology scales better or something, but I can't help feeling that we've stagnated a bit.