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How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

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Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#71

Post by georgieporgie »

jsprinkles wrote: post #57
otterley wrote: post #22

You might also want to consider living in Oakland instead of San Francisco and taking BART to the city to work. My rent is 1/3 less and my commute (20 minutes door-to-door) is much shorter than that of many of my colleagues who live in the city. Oakland is a big, heterogeneous city, with really nice districts that offer great dining, bars, and the usual city trappings.

Not just Oakland. The majority of the Bay Area exists to support commuting to San Francisco. The peninsula tech companies are actually a newer phenomenon.

As a former Oaklander, I take offense at your statement. :-)

Oakland exists as an industrial hub. Emeryville, on the other hand, exists as a suburb of San Francisco (though I think that with recent business expansion, it's becoming its own city). As far as I know, this is still the case, and more people live and work in Oakland than live in Oakland and commute into SF.

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#72

Post by natrius »

potatolicious wrote: post #58
wyclif wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it went "unnoticed" because there's actually no negative connotation to the word "immigrant" in and of itself.

The relevant quote: > "There’s also huge differences from neighborhood to neighborhood as you are unlikely to find someone interested in the Mission (hipsters, homeless and immigrants)" This does seem to be used in a derogatory way, and I did miss it the first time around. I don't think this is an innocent use of "immigrant" at all. And hell, for a neighborhood that nobody's interested in, the Mission is one of the m…

Context matters. The point was that it's hard to find someone interested in the Mission and the Marina and the Sunset. There are many immigrants in the Mission. Should he not have mentioned it at all? Should he have phrased it differently?

Why is no one taking offense to the "hipsters" or "homeless" parts? Those are also terms that are usually viewed negatively, but there are many people who are looking for exactly that in a neighborhood. Immigrants are a plus for many people too.

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#73

Post by potatolicious »

dudeguy999 wrote: post #70
potatolicious wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the quote? Or are you assuming that all uses of the word "immigrant" are innocent and above reproach?

Oh, I get it. He's saying he doesn't want to live in a neighborhood where the only culture on offer is hipster, homeless, or Latin. And he's not allowed to think that, at least out loud, because Latin culture is non-White and therefore holy and infinitely lovable. He is guilty of crimethink.

As opposed to neighborhoods where the only culture on offer is American?

Also, "homeless" is not a culture.

Author is very obviously complaining about the presence of hipsters, homeless folk... and, well, immigrants, and seems to think that his aversion to such people is shared by many others. Judging by rent prices in the Mission and public opinion, this does not hold any water whatsoever.

Author is entitled to think whatever he damn well wants, but we are also entitled to judge his commentary on their own merits. And please, don't come to this table with 1984-bullshit whenever people are inclined to call a duck a duck. We really ought to make a term for it like we have for Godwin.

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#74

Post by dudeguy999 »

potatolicious wrote: post #73
dudeguy999 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I get it. He's saying he doesn't want to live in a neighborhood where the only culture on offer is hipster, homeless, or Latin. And he's not allowed to think that, at least out loud, because Latin culture is non-White and therefore holy and infinitely lovable. He is guilty of crimethink.

As opposed to neighborhoods where the only culture on offer is American? Also, "homeless" is not a culture. Author is very obviously complaining about the presence of hipsters, homeless folk... and, well, immigrants , and seems to think that his aversion to such people is shared by many others. Judging by rent prices in the Mission and public opinion, this does not hold any water whatsoever. Author is entitled to thi…

I don't like to live in Spanish speaking neighborhoods because I don't speak Spanish. I enjoy the food and the low prices, I don't enjoy the culture. If you don't speak English in America, you tend to be poor and less educated, which means you and I will have less in common. I fully realize I am not allowed to say this in Liberal America because this makes me a DISGUSTING BIGOT, so I don't post this under my real name account. But I admire the energy that you Right Thinking people put into your witchhunts.

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#75

Post by benmccann »

otterley wrote: post #22

You might also want to consider living in Oakland instead of San Francisco and taking BART to the city to work. My rent is 1/3 less and my commute (20 minutes door-to-door) is much shorter than that of many of my colleagues who live in the city. Oakland is a big, heterogeneous city, with really nice districts that offer great dining, bars, and the usual city trappings.

That sounds like a great way to get murdered (http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/oakland/crime/). What are some of the places that are better or should be avoided?

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#76

Post by lsiebert »

Two things:

First, the bart shutting down at midnight doesn't mean there is no public transit. You can almost always take the bus.

Second: You can move near SF state, either in the city or in Daly City, and have an ok roommate/rent situation with managable transit options. Especially if you are willing to bike a bit.

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#77

Post by dudeguy999 »

white_devil wrote: post #69
crcsmnky wrote: post #31

You put a lot of work into this article and wrote quite a few great tips when looking for a place to live in SF. Unfortunately you undermined the entire post with your "immigrants" comment. In fact you made yourself look like a huge bigot. That sucks because it was otherwise well written and useful. It's sad that this is going largely unnoticed by the rest of the comments on this post.

Here's another point of view. Let's say I'm a Finnish person, which is true, and I move from Finland to SF. Upon moving to SF, I'm aware that I'm an immigrant there, just like any others who moved in to the US from another country. Now, if someone tells me that a specific area is full of "hipsters, homeless and immigrants", this will be my reaction: "Oh? Apparently a lot of immigrants have ended up in an area with a…

"Immigrant" here means non-English speaking immigrant, particularly Spanish in this case. China town would also be described as an "immigrant" neighborhood. But English speaking wealthy immigrants tend to blend in and not form into cohesive neighborhoods.

This is a bad thing to say because in educated, liberal America racism is the worst possible crime you can commit, and non-English communities tend to be non-White (this was not so true 40 or 50 years ago). So if you voice that you don't want to live in an immigrant neighborhood, you will be accused of being a "disgusting racist bigot".

I think it is perfectly reasonable to dislike living near lots of poor people who speak a different language than you. But I missed a few brainwashing sessions in college. You shouldn't say things like that out loud if you ever visit America.

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#78

Post by potatolicious »

dudeguy999 wrote: post #74
potatolicious wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to neighborhoods where the only culture on offer is American? Also, "homeless" is not a culture. Author is very obviously complaining about the presence of hipsters, homeless folk... and, well, immigrants , and seems to think that his aversion to such people is shared by many others. Judging by rent prices in the Mission and public opinion, this does not hold any water whatsoever. Author is entitled to thi…

I don't like to live in Spanish speaking neighborhoods because I don't speak Spanish. I enjoy the food and the low prices, I don't enjoy the culture. If you don't speak English in America, you tend to be poor and less educated, which means you and I will have less in common. I fully realize I am not allowed to say this in Liberal America because this makes me a DISGUSTING BIGOT, so I don't post this under my real nam…

> "If you don't speak English in America, you tend to be poor and less educated"

Such as the Asian immigrant population.

Which, last I checked, is experiencing quotas at Ivy League schools because they're getting in at rates much, much higher than any other race, and tend to come from backgrounds of higher education, even if their parents' English is poor.

You're trying to generalize your argument to minimize the appearance of being racist - but your argument doesn't actually generalize beyond the Latino community, which by and large does fit your description. So really, your objection isn't against "people who speak poor English", it's against Latinos.

> " I fully realize I am not allowed to say this in Liberal America because this makes me a DISGUSTING BIGOT"

Nah. From your own self-description I'd characterize you as an ivory-tower elitist (ironically, something conservatives tend to accuse of Liberal America) - you know, inability to find common ground with people with low-SES and low-education and such... Race does seem to play as a factor for you, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt when you say it does not. But of course, I don't know you in real life, so such judgments are rarely wise.

This argument isn't going anywhere productive, so I'm going to step out of it with this: your exact same rationalizations have been used against Blacks, and smells very close to the same arguments we hear coming out of the "I'm not anti-gay, I'm pro-marriage" camp. If it quacks...

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#79

Post by trefn »

philp wrote: post #53
wyclif wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually no negative connotation to the noun "immigrant."

You're absolutely right. But reading this article the author seems to imply a negative connotation by saying you'd be hard pressed to find somebody willing to live in the mission because of "hipsters, homeless and immigrants".

My interpretation of that paragraph was that no single person was likely to be interested in all three of the neighborhoods mentioned because they're all so different.

Re: How to find an apartment in San Francisco during the tech boom

#80

Post by devs1010 »

jsprinkles wrote: post #56

I pay $2,000/mo for three very spacious bedrooms in Dublin, and I'm to work in SoMa in about an hour on BART (with an empty inbox!) . Not to mention Dublin is an absolutely wonderful place to live for suburban types, like married couples. It's really depressing that discussions like this revolve around the city only. There is an entire world of commuter residences all around San Francisco, and people figured out how…

Agreed, I commute into sf from the east bay, my commute is longer than I'd like now so am planning to move closer but not into the city. Sf is so dense that it can often be the same commuting length in terms of time coming from across the bay as if you lived in the city
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