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Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

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Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#31

Post by freedomben »

kstrauser wrote: post #19
edent wrote: post #2

I've used this several times to read books I've legally purchased. An indispensable bit of software.

I adamantly believe that this is morally and ethically OK in all situations. If you buy a copy of a book, it's your right to read it on any device of yours you want, even ones that haven't been manufactured yet. I bought a copy of Stephen King's "The Stand" 30 years ago and it's still on a bookshelf here ready for me to read at any time. If I'd bought an ebook copy of it instead, I'm just as ethically permitted to re…

> Before anyone bothers "correcting" me with nonsense about buying a license instead of a copy, don't bother.

> It's impossible to convince me that it's wrong to share a copy with my wife, any more than it'd be wrong to lend her my physical copy after I'm done reading it.

I completely agree with you on this issue. I think it's grotesque the way digital "purchases" work, to the point where I am boycotting Kindle and every other place that has DRM (and while it's a drop in their ocean, it does cost them probably $500 to $1,000 per year in sales from me. Though I have no illusion that it's making a difference, but it matters to me).

But that said, I think closing your mind so completely before you've even heard a counter-argument is irresponsible and anti-intellectual. I doubt anybody is going to change my mind either, but I would like to hear the strongest possible arguments against my position so I can evaluate my correctness. If my position is solid, then it will be hard to make a great argument against it. If my position isn't solid, I would like to know so I can get on more solid rational ground.

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#32

Post by freedomben »

VS1999 wrote: post #23
WolfeReader wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Devil's advocate here) When you made an Amazon account, and each time you purchase one of their ebooks, you agree to their "Terms of Service", which states that you won't do some of the things you want to do with your ebook. Amazon wouldn't sell/license you the book if you told them you were going to break the DRM and read it on a Kobo. In effect, you're lying to Amazon in order to use their property in a way they s…

Whenever someone invokes the "terms of service" I just get annoyed. I live in the US where we have absolutely no consumer rights and every company can put anything they want in the ToS or EULA, and if it violates the law they aren't punished (such as illegal warranty restrictions). Most EULAs even have a clause that says something like "if any part of this contract is illegal, ignore it and the rest is still enforced…

I agree with your points here, but this seems like a two-wrongs-make-a-right type of argument. Basically, companies (like Amazon) don't have to honor their agreements, so neither do I.

I agree that's a fair standard, but it does feel a little ... suboptimal to say "I can and will lie because I expect that they are lying."

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#33

Post by freedomben »

chx wrote: post #30
WolfeReader wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Devil's advocate here) When you made an Amazon account, and each time you purchase one of their ebooks, you agree to their "Terms of Service", which states that you won't do some of the things you want to do with your ebook. Amazon wouldn't sell/license you the book if you told them you were going to break the DRM and read it on a Kobo. In effect, you're lying to Amazon in order to use their property in a way they s…

> Google Play Books are basically the same as Kobo, but they don't state up-front if a book has DRM or not. they absolutely do. https://i.imgur.com/VA3G54Z.png

Very nice, I'm beginning to have a very high opinion of Google Play Books. The fact that I can upload my own epubs and use their product with them like first-class content is really damn cool. I didn't know about this aspect, but this makes a major difference to me. Thank you!

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#34

Post by kstrauser »

freedomben wrote: post #31
kstrauser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I adamantly believe that this is morally and ethically OK in all situations. If you buy a copy of a book, it's your right to read it on any device of yours you want, even ones that haven't been manufactured yet. I bought a copy of Stephen King's "The Stand" 30 years ago and it's still on a bookshelf here ready for me to read at any time. If I'd bought an ebook copy of it instead, I'm just as ethically permitted to re…

> Before anyone bothers "correcting" me with nonsense about buying a license instead of a copy, don't bother. > It's impossible to convince me that it's wrong to share a copy with my wife, any more than it'd be wrong to lend her my physical copy after I'm done reading it. I completely agree with you on this issue. I think it's grotesque the way digital "purchases" work, to the point where I am boycotting Kindle and e…

You're quite right. It's just that I've had this specific argument before, I've heard the arguments, and they're unconvincing. The first few times -- yes, I talk about this kind of thing more often than you might imagine -- it was intellectually challenging in the way you describe. Are my own points valid and reasonable? Do they bring up new points I should consider? It gets tiresome after a while, though. No one ever brings up novel ideas or even interesting ones. Every single time it's more like this:

Me: I bought a {ebook, movie, video game} the other day, and...

Unclever person: GOTCHA! You bought a license! There, do you feel better for having been corrected by my superior pedantry?

That nonsense ads nothing to the conversation except for me blocking the person as a pain in the ass if I'm on a platform where I can block people. If someone has an actual argument stronger than the Terms of Service printed in 3 point type on the back of a store behind the bathrooms, I'd love to hear it. I couldn't care less about the gotchas.

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#35

Post by phonon »

freedomben wrote: post #33
chx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google Play Books are basically the same as Kobo, but they don't state up-front if a book has DRM or not. they absolutely do. https://i.imgur.com/VA3G54Z.png

Very nice, I'm beginning to have a very high opinion of Google Play Books. The fact that I can upload my own epubs and use their product with them like first-class content is really damn cool. I didn't know about this aspect, but this makes a major difference to me. Thank you!

You can do that with Kindle as well...?

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#36

Post by mminer237 »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #17
szundi wrote: post #3

Is it stealing when someone buys a book legally and then downloads it drm-free to save it for future use? (As should be normal)

Is downloading ever copyright infringement? I was under the impression that it is the uploading, i.e. distributing that is illegal, not receiving the copy.

Receiving a copy is unquestionably infringement. You're copying it to your computer. Even pirate streams are copying it to your RAM.

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#38

Post by freedomben »

phonon wrote: post #35
freedomben wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very nice, I'm beginning to have a very high opinion of Google Play Books. The fact that I can upload my own epubs and use their product with them like first-class content is really damn cool. I didn't know about this aspect, but this makes a major difference to me. Thank you!

You can do that with Kindle as well...?

I've been boycotting Kindle for quite a few years now, so I genuinely don't know what that experience is like now. At least the last time I used it though, there was a pretty clear difference between my epubs and Kindle-provided content in the way the UI treated it and the user experience when consuming it. Are they fairly equivalent experiences now?

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#39

Post by patcon »

WolfeReader wrote: post #15
sshine wrote: post #13

I’m probably reading this wrong, but “gourou” (狗肉) is dog meat in Chinese.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gourou Given that the hosting site is on a French domain, I'm guessing this is the intended meaning.

Ah, I thought it was a play on "loup-garou", which is french[-canadian] for "werewolf". Though odd spelling did confuse me... :)

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#40

Post by codazoda »

WolfeReader wrote: post #22
kstrauser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I adamantly believe that this is morally and ethically OK in all situations. If you buy a copy of a book, it's your right to read it on any device of yours you want, even ones that haven't been manufactured yet. I bought a copy of Stephen King's "The Stand" 30 years ago and it's still on a bookshelf here ready for me to read at any time. If I'd bought an ebook copy of it instead, I'm just as ethically permitted to re…

(Devil's advocate here) When you made an Amazon account, and each time you purchase one of their ebooks, you agree to their "Terms of Service", which states that you won't do some of the things you want to do with your ebook. Amazon wouldn't sell/license you the book if you told them you were going to break the DRM and read it on a Kobo. In effect, you're lying to Amazon in order to use their property in a way they s…

Self-published author here—I agree with these points and I hate DRM myself.

I write DRM free books and I publish them on Amazon for the Kindle. Since they ask authors, I presume they share the DRM status too, although maybe not as prominently.

I recently decided to buy another Kindle. I prefer paper books but I’m running low on space. When I looked at my library I realized the Kindle app has faithfully kept a list of all the Kindle books I’ve read over the years. I was surprised to find a pretty good collection of books in my library. So, it feels relatively evergreen at this point.

Most recently I purchased a Kindle tablet with a stylus to save myself from the collection of paper notebooks I’m starting to collect. You can read more about how I take handwritten notes on the Kindle in the post below.

https://notes.joeldare.com/notes-on-the-amazon-fire-max-11

I would certainly consider other options but Amazon is making it convenient for me and they make a decent product at a pretty good price. Maybe one day I’ll give the other players a try but for now I’m okay with the limitations of Amazon’s ecosystem.

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