Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

996 working hour system

en.wikipedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 77 posts

Re: 996 working hour system

#11

Post by foobarian »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #8

I just don't get how knowledge workers can slave away like that. I can be productive for 12-15 hours a day when the conditions are just right, but usually they aren't and after a few hours I need to switch to something less productive than actual coding. Do employers really see any measurable improvement in volume (let alone quality) of output after 30 hours a week?

It's not a rational phenomenon, it's social/peer-pressure based. Ever been in a situation where an open floor plan full of employees is typing away, with the boss walking the aisles, and you need to leave early?

Re: 996 working hour system

#12

Post by porphyra »

lvl102 wrote: post #3

And you wonder why China is experiencing brain drain. Rest of world is moving toward 4-day work week and these guys think their citizens are dumb enough to slave away their lives.

It's an East Asian cultural thing to work super hard for some reason, same with Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. By "Rest of the world" you really just mean a handful of Western European nations with stagnant economies, but by god I do wish I could work less.

Re: 996 working hour system

#13

Post by pizzafeelsright »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #8

I just don't get how knowledge workers can slave away like that. I can be productive for 12-15 hours a day when the conditions are just right, but usually they aren't and after a few hours I need to switch to something less productive than actual coding. Do employers really see any measurable improvement in volume (let alone quality) of output after 30 hours a week?

I work anywhere between 25 and 45 hours. My work varies based upon my ability to complete the work given to me. I am not really qualified for some of the tasks in my position although I learn quickly.

I would argue that 90% of employers cannot effectively measure productivity. I have worked in call centers where metrics are tracked - which of course I learned to game - allowing me to work the same hours while making 50% above my peers based upon bonuses.

Knowledge workers are a different type of job with somewhere >50% being fake jobs that exist only because companies have capital and managers and head count means success.

Re: 996 working hour system

#14

Post by ActionHank »

lvl102 wrote: post #3

And you wonder why China is experiencing brain drain. Rest of world is moving toward 4-day work week and these guys think their citizens are dumb enough to slave away their lives.

The rest of the world will look to use 4 day work week as a way to put downward pressure on salaries.

China hasn't really needed to put too much downward pressure on salaries.

Re: 996 working hour system

#15

Post by ta1243 »

porphyra wrote: post #12
lvl102 wrote: post #3

And you wonder why China is experiencing brain drain. Rest of world is moving toward 4-day work week and these guys think their citizens are dumb enough to slave away their lives.

It's an East Asian cultural thing to work super hard for some reason, same with Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. By "Rest of the world" you really just mean a handful of Western European nations with stagnant economies, but by god I do wish I could work less.

We've had 45 years of GDP increase not being reflected in wages, who cares if the economy is "stagnant" if the people making it happen aren't seeing the benefit.

Re: 996 working hour system

#16

Post by kstrauser »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #8

I just don't get how knowledge workers can slave away like that. I can be productive for 12-15 hours a day when the conditions are just right, but usually they aren't and after a few hours I need to switch to something less productive than actual coding. Do employers really see any measurable improvement in volume (let alone quality) of output after 30 hours a week?

They don't. It's visually impressive: look how hard we're all working! But it's impossible that they're getting more than a pittance of useful output after hour 50 or so.

You've got a guy sitting at his desk at 8:55PM on a Saturday night. Impressive. We all know he hasn't been doing anything worthwhile since some time back on Thursday, and you've been wasting electricity on him afterward.

Re: 996 working hour system

#17

Post by netsharc »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #10

So, I talked to someone who had worked at AliBaba for a bit (Son Luong Ngoc) and learned a lot. Some of the 996 is related to the company campus providing everything at a pretty low cost and a sort of presentism where being around is rewarded. All that plus the jobs are considered great jobs within China, and there is cut-throat performance competition process. Also, I think sleeping at work, taking a nap while waiti…

I feel like the Wikipedia article is demonizing the Chinese companies without enough citations of what they're asserting (I was expecting a lot of citations of how the whole thing is still being practiced in 2024...), while the reality is like what you describe, of presentism and being unproductive for a lot of time...

Re: 996 working hour system

#18

Post by TrackerFF »

I've always wondered, do these work? As in - is the production of the 996 workers more, less, or equal to those working 40 hour weeks?

Did it arise out of some data-driven research, or is it mostly just the result of cargo-culting, where one successful company had such hours/schedule, and the other companies just followed suit?

Re: 996 working hour system

#19

Post by LastTrain »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
masijo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Rest of world is moving toward 4-day work week Where, exactly, is this happening?

https://www.4dayweek.com/casestudies https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39457728 ("HN: 4-day week made permanent for 89% UK firms who took part in Worlds biggest trial") https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/14/countries-that-are-embracing... ("4 countries that are embracing—or experimenting with—the 4-day workweek") https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/companies-around-the-wo... ("Companies around the world adopt four-day…

“Moving towards” was the question.

Re: 996 working hour system

#20

Post by toomuchtodo »

ActionHank wrote: post #14
lvl102 wrote: post #3

And you wonder why China is experiencing brain drain. Rest of world is moving toward 4-day work week and these guys think their citizens are dumb enough to slave away their lives.

The rest of the world will look to use 4 day work week as a way to put downward pressure on salaries. China hasn't really needed to put too much downward pressure on salaries.

Unions and labor regulations are important components of arriving at the desired outcome. You have to keep pulling the policy ratchets to reduce the work week and bolster worker protections, otherwise capitalism will extract until there is nothing left.
Post reply on HN