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The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

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Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#51

Post by paxys »

segasaturn wrote: post #25
paxys wrote: post #4

Affordable small cars have never been a thing in the US, electric or not. There's zero reason to believe that this new batch will pose a threat.

> Affordable small cars have never been a thing in the US Why not? Just a cultural thing? Times are tough in America and people are interested in EVs because of gas prices. I see a $10k EV selling like wildfire - small, entry-level and not as big a commitment as a F-150 Lightning.

Yes it's a cultural thing. The highest selling vehicles in the US every year are SUVs and pickup trucks, even in the middle of dense cities. The small 2-4 door cars you see all over Europe and Asia aren't sold here at all. Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic etc. are considered "compact" cars, and that size is the smallest people will even consider.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#53

Post by seanmcdirmid »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #26
foobarian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should be safe to allow imports then, right? Since nobody but me would buy one. :-)

I am attempting to import the Seagull currently (experience the pain, see if and how to scale, how to avoid tariff mechanisms, etc), intend to report back with findings. https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

This should be really difficult, especially since America and China have high tariffs in place for automobiles between each other as per China's WTO entrance agreement.

But if you want to have a lot of fun, try importing (as a private citizen) any kind of car into China. It is virtually impossible, even if the car is old. My boss tried to get his Hummer into China once just for kicks, and the negotiations just went on forever and eventually he just went back to the states. You might have an easier time if you are a diplomat and can get black plates for it.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#54

Post by autoexecbat »

boringg wrote: post #23

Everyone being like - we don't care about cars that small. It's the equivalent at looking at LLMs two years ago and being - it can't perform anything. It's an entry point and they will get bigger and better and more attractive - to the benefit of consumers upping the competition. Kia was written off when it first came to town. US domestics should be concerned - they wrote off Tesla as well.

I really want a car that small - as the family's second car

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#55

Post by JumpCrisscross »

iambateman wrote: post #39

"The Chinese government wants to wipe out American automakers by introducing competitively priced cars" is a PR scare tactic. It's exactly what I would say if I were a PR person trying to figure out how to protect my company's interests. Cars are imported from all over the world, and so long as they meet American safety standards, I think they should be. Also if I could buy a safe, new EV for $10,000, no matter how s…

> so long as they meet American safety standards, I think they should be

The question is to what degree those standards were written for safety versus protectionism, and to what degree any other market cares about them.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#56

Post by ninetyninenine »

Arnt wrote: post #13
tw04 wrote: post #3

As it should, just like the dirt cheap solar panels from China scared US suppliers and drove all of them out of business. When the government subsidizes product to the point of it being significantly below market cost in order to capture market share, the folks who can't do the same lose. See: Amazon and small bookstores.

That car is small, light, has few moving parts, no luxury parts, and the most expensive part is dropping quickly in price. It clearly is below market cost, since it sets a new price record. But subsidized? What makes you think it's subsidized?

The article says it’s subsidized. The reality is if it is at all subsidized it’s incredibly minor. Subsidizing things to such an extent is a huge drain on any government and has dire consequences.

He’s not wrong there’s a lot to fear he’s just too afraid to say exactly what it is.

China in many areas is surpassing the US in technological superiority, capability and cost. The country is viciously fighting for intellectual and economic dominance based not on cheap tricks like subsidization or tariffs but through actual superior capability. Such a future is one realistic possibility out of many and it’s not just for cars.

War between the two countries instigated by the US to maintain technological superiority is a possibility but very unlikely. If it happens there will likely be an excuse like human rights or defending Taiwan. There is little fear for this because likely the instigator for war will be the west. The west in a certain way wants war a bit more than the east.

Everything you see in this thread and outside of this fear is an excuse. This is the true thing that Americans fear. They fear it so much that they can’t even fully admit it. Instead most people lie to them selves. It’s a form of patriotism that colors most people’s biases.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#57

Post by [deleted] »

throwitaway222 wrote: post #35
segasaturn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Affordable small cars have never been a thing in the US Why not? Just a cultural thing? Times are tough in America and people are interested in EVs because of gas prices. I see a $10k EV selling like wildfire - small, entry-level and not as big a commitment as a F-150 Lightning.

He was using sarcasm

[deleted]

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#58

Post by seanmcdirmid »

boringg wrote: post #29
paxys wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says imports aren't allowed?

US protectionism would like a word with you.

Chinese protectionism would also like a word. Remember these tariffs were originally setup between the US and China in 2006 to protect China's car market, not the USA's. See https://faculty.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/dswenson/ChinaCarPa...

> Here, the bilateral agreement noted the expectation that by 2006 China’s import tariff on assembled cars was to be reduced from its pre WTO level of 80% or 100% to 25%, while the diverse rates of tariff on auto parts were to be reduced such that the average tariff on auto parts declined to 10%.

That was a reduction from the 80-100% it was previously, so 25% was a huge win back then, but it was (and is) still a mostly protected car market.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#59

Post by [deleted] »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #43

The scary thing for US car manufacturers isn't necessarily Chinese imports in the US, which import tariffs should prevent, but the notion of BYD partnering with or acquiring existing US manufacturers and then starting to produce very cheap cars inside the US. This is what the Japanese did and later other manufacturers. Fiat bought Chrysler at some point and now Stellantis (which Fiat/Chrysler merged into) is producin…

[deleted]

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#60

Post by OtherShrezzing »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #12
nothercastle wrote: post #7

Nobody in the USA wants that market. There isn’t even an interest in under 25k cars. I don’t see any issues allowing these if local manufacturers aren’t even willing to make products at 2x the price

> Nobody in the USA wants that market. There isn’t even an interest in under 25k cars That doesn’t mean the market doesn’t exist. I could see these being sold in Mexico and Europe. At that point, the American car industry becomes an inefficient protected industry. American voters have limited sympathy for those in the long run when it comes to consumer goods. That said, it’s unclear if BYD can make a $10k car that me…

>At that point, the American car industry becomes an inefficient protected industry. American voters have limited sympathy for those in the long run when it comes to consumer goods.

Do they have little sympathy? The list of protected American industries is enormous, and has been for nearly a century. Tobacco, corn, vehicles, aerospace, the energy industry, oil & gas industry. I could write out a list as long as my arm.

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