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The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

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Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#41

Post by seanmcdirmid »

boringg wrote: post #23

Everyone being like - we don't care about cars that small. It's the equivalent at looking at LLMs two years ago and being - it can't perform anything. It's an entry point and they will get bigger and better and more attractive - to the benefit of consumers upping the competition. Kia was written off when it first came to town. US domestics should be concerned - they wrote off Tesla as well.

> Kia was written off when it first came to town.

Hyundai/Kia were smart in that they introduced their cars with really long warranties to dispel quality concerns. However, they lost a lot of credibility recently with their cars being famous for being easy to steal via YouTube tutorials and tiktok challenges.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#42

Post by papercrane »

GenerWork wrote: post #5

Would BYD even be able to sell it here for $10k? Pretty sure Trump slapped a bunch of tariffs on Chinese vehicles, and Biden may have hiked those tariffs. To me, the logical step is for Chinese vehicles to build factories in Mexico and then ship vehicles into the country so they qualify as NAFTA vehicles. No way will it be $10k, but it certainly won't be $40k like other electric vehicles.

They're already looking to enter the Mexican market. Publicly they say this is to supply the Mexican market, and not export to the USA. It will be interesting to see if/when that changes.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines...

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#43

Post by jillesvangurp »

The scary thing for US car manufacturers isn't necessarily Chinese imports in the US, which import tariffs should prevent, but the notion of BYD partnering with or acquiring existing US manufacturers and then starting to produce very cheap cars inside the US. This is what the Japanese did and later other manufacturers. Fiat bought Chrysler at some point and now Stellantis (which Fiat/Chrysler merged into) is producing lots of traditional US car brands in the US.

The notion that EVs are now feasible at low cost is what is making car manufacturers nervous. Because these Chinese cars are 1) very good 2) much cheaper than other manufacturers would be able to deliver.

There's a lot being said about subsidies. That's no excuse. The US has a 1 trillion $ IRA package. And a history of repeatedly bailing out bankrupt car manufacturers. They have and have had plenty of government support over the years. The lack of support is not the issue.

In the end government support is a means to an end: figuring out how to build lots of cheap electrical vehicles. The Chinese seem to be doing quite well on that front.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#45

Post by dehrmann »

paxys wrote: post #4

Affordable small cars have never been a thing in the US, electric or not. There's zero reason to believe that this new batch will pose a threat.

During the pandemic car shortage, a lot of car makers started over-producing their higher-end models. With the entry-level market being underserved and facing high interest rates, this might find a market. Not that people wouldn't rather upgrade, but it's a lot cheaper than a Mazda 2.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#46

Post by devmor »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #34
devmor wrote: post #10

I hope so. The price of EVs in the US market is ludicrously overinflated. It's understandable for new startups like Rivian, Lucid and co, but in the case of existing auto manufacturers, early adopters are subsidizing the cost of redeveloping tooling that should have been easily covered by nearly a century of profit leeched away by shareholders. GM, Ford and Stellantis should have been able to produce a sub-$20k EV by…

> The price of EVs in the US market is ludicrously overinflated Maybe so, but the labor unions and general cost of doing business is higher in the US. But I think the major cost here is the batteries and charging tech. BYD is ahead on both these things - they were a battery company first, car manufacturer second. Their CEO is also very astute.

>Maybe so, but the labor unions and general cost of doing business is higher in the US.

Sure, and that's understandable - but I'm making a comparison to ICE vehicles. That doesn't provide an appreciable difference there.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#47

Post by hangonhn »

GenerWork wrote: post #5

Would BYD even be able to sell it here for $10k? Pretty sure Trump slapped a bunch of tariffs on Chinese vehicles, and Biden may have hiked those tariffs. To me, the logical step is for Chinese vehicles to build factories in Mexico and then ship vehicles into the country so they qualify as NAFTA vehicles. No way will it be $10k, but it certainly won't be $40k like other electric vehicles.

> To me, the logical step is for Chinese vehicles to build factories in Mexico and then ship vehicles into the country so they qualify as NAFTA vehicles. No way will it be $10k, but it certainly won't be $40k like other electric vehicles.

I wouldn't be so sure it won't be $10k. The cost of labor in China has been going up for a while now. China's strength in the EV market comes from their near monopoly on the supply chain. What a lot of Chinese companies have been doing is to do most of the manufacturing in China and ship the major components off for final assembly in other countries like Vietnam and Philippines. I don't see why the same thing can't happen in Mexico. In fact, a lot of manufacturing in Mexico is precisely of the final assembly sort to take advantage of NAFTA.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#48

Post by Etheryte »

You mean in the same way that these imported cars are currently piling up in ports in Europe without anyone buying them? Chinese producers rushed to buy up cargo ships since they couldn't get the shipping volume they wanted, but now that they have their ships it looks like the demand isn't really there.

[0] https://www.ft.com/content/496f3bfa-9f0c-4145-9024-188572a28...

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#49

Post by AlotOfReading »

GenerWork wrote: post #5

Would BYD even be able to sell it here for $10k? Pretty sure Trump slapped a bunch of tariffs on Chinese vehicles, and Biden may have hiked those tariffs. To me, the logical step is for Chinese vehicles to build factories in Mexico and then ship vehicles into the country so they qualify as NAFTA vehicles. No way will it be $10k, but it certainly won't be $40k like other electric vehicles.

They'd probably need to do some design work to US/European standards. The current price is highly competitive even after tariffs and taxes though. The highest import tariffs I'm aware of anywhere in the world hover around 100% in places like Singapore. $20k plus an additional $5k in pure margin is still over $1k below the MSRP of the cheapest American EV (Chevy bolt). If we assume much more reasonable 25-50% tariffs, nobody else even comes close.

Re: The $10k BYD Seagull EV is scaring the U.S. auto industry

#50

Post by roody15 »

Price point is a major factor in EV adoption. If the United States is truly looking for increased market share of EV’s then we need a lower end market.

The US market is geared too much towards “luxury” and “rent” based features and subscriptions. All which maximize profit for manufactures. If the US is serious about EV adoption then we need to compete and offer better range of prices. My two cents .

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