Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#691

Post by elmer007 » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

delichon wrote: post #528

pelagicAustral wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother is essentially the male version of this, just swap the cosmetics for video game DLCs. He's early 20's, no job, no interest in work, no interest in getting out of the house, no interest on anything... talking to him is the most frustrating experience ever, nothing comes out of him, no emotion... I talked so many times, tried to get an idea of what might drive him: travelling, learning, walking around in the…

This described my brother too. He killed himself four years ago, after about thirty years of just that kind of depression. And I was my little brother's keeper damn it, so it's my failure. Ever since I keep reliving it and wondering what I could have done. All I come up with are fantasy scenarios in which I somehow make us both wildly successful. But even that's a stretch given his outlook. I fantasize about some kin…

I'm sorry to hear about your brother. Thank you for sharing- your words are helping me think through some related things.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#692

Post by randomdata » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

amplex1337 wrote: post #646

randomdata wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She doesn't share her actual thoughts That's where social media has been most damaging. You can't share your thoughts anymore. The 'Redditization' of the world means that sharing thoughts is met with hostility. No longer can you just throw something out there, no matter how stupid. These days you have carry an entire encyclopedia with you in order to back up every last thing you say and if you utter anything that i…

You certainly can just throw things out there, but if you are obsessed with making every single person satisfied with your thoughts, you are going to have a bad time. The world is full of people who disagree with you, but you need to learn more than ever to recognize and filter out what you don't care about. I don't even view replies to posts any longer, 98% of the time because I am not seeking validation sharing my…

> The world is full of people who disagree with you

One should hope. Disagreement is how you learn. It is why we talk to each other.

But that's not what we're talking about here. With 'Reddit' behaviour transcending beyond Internet forums, we're losing the disagreement. Now we see ostracization. There is no: "You are wrong because X." or "That is an interesting thought, but have you considered Y?" it has become "There is something wrong with you." and in the extreme "Say goodbye to your job/friends/family."

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#693

Post by yungporko » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

randomdata wrote: post #486

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

> She doesn't share her actual thoughts That's where social media has been most damaging. You can't share your thoughts anymore. The 'Redditization' of the world means that sharing thoughts is met with hostility. No longer can you just throw something out there, no matter how stupid. These days you have carry an entire encyclopedia with you in order to back up every last thing you say and if you utter anything that i…

this definitely describes nearly 100% of interactions on the internet but i almost never encounter this in real life, i assume because the other person can't sit there googling and adjusting their argument any more than you can that there's no way to "win" anyway.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#694

Post by Aerroon » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #32

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jonathan Haidt, the author of this article, was on Real Time w Bill Maher recently, and has some simple recommendations with respect to phones and social media: 1. No smartphones for kids before high school — give them only flip phones in middle school. 2. No social media before age 16. 3. Make schools phone-free, by putting devices in phone lockers or Yondr pouches. 4. Give kids far more free play and independence,…

I don't get how phones became acceptable in schools. Imagine bringing a GameBoy into class in the 90s. It'd be taken away instantly.

I don't understand how people aren't differentiating between bringing a phone with you into class and actually using it on class.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that anybody would even suggest that kids shouldn't be allowed to have a phone at school.

Equally, I don't understand how having a phone at school is a problem during class. Of course you aren't allowed to use your phone during class unless given explicit permission. If you do it your phone gets confiscated. You get it back after class. If it happens too often your behavior grade gets marked down.

And if a kid uses a phone during a test then that's just cheating and they get an F.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#695

Post by 2devnull » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

Usenet didn’t have this problem. It’s not being online and interacting with others that’s the problem. It’s the money. And we’ve known that forever.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#696

Post by genrilz » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #598

genrilz wrote: post #571

This is a post in a debate between Jonathan Haidt and Candice Odgers. If you look at the meta-analysis cited by both, Haidt cites one which does seem to show a high effect size correlational link between screen time and depression. Odgers cites 4 meta analyses, one of which is actually a meta-meta analysis, which all claim that the effect size on depression and other measures of well-being are small. I'm not quite su…

"the majority of the evidence seems to point towards it not causing large well-being problems." I can't see how this is true. Anecdotally, everyone I talk to, and you most comments in this thread (and any other thread) is full of people admitting that they A. use their phone too much B. wish they didn't and C. it makes them feel bad. Again, n of 1, but I've never met someone that openly wants to use their phone more…

I at least skimmed all of the meta-analyses that both of them cited. It seems like social media has both positive and negative effects on people, and these average out to fairly near zero.

From this, I can make a hypothesis about why you are seeing what you are seeing: Assuming you are in a society which values hard work, (like the US) then the people around you probably think of social media based screen-time as being lazy. Thus they derive some amount of self-loathing from their own social media use, and are more likely to focus on the negative effects and not the positive effects of social media use.

I don't have the data to prove this particular story, but hopefully it at least demonstrates how both the research and your personal experience could be true at the same time.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#697

Post by nonrandomstring » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:35 PM UTC

Aerroon wrote: post #686

nonrandomstring wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two kinds of freedom [0]. What we are missing in our society today is some essential negative freedoms. Most of us follow J.S. Mill's idea on restricting the influence of the state. See the many comments in this thread decrying government intervention to ban social media. That's a negative freedom, from tyranny. Mostly, we tend to emphasise positive freedoms, freedom to ; run a business, share speech, own t…

"The freedom from the scourge of drugs" is why I can't buy an asthma inhaler without paying out the nose to see a specialist that will prescribe it to me. As a result I don't have an asthma inhaler. I feel very free when breathing gets hard. This is a snarky comment, but this is the consequence of this "negative freedom". I do think that there's some merit to these ideas, but I think it would always leave the choice…

I'd really like to understand your comment better Aerroon.

Is this something to do with the US healthcare system? Can you elaborate please?

(BTW if it is, one of my friends who is a type-1 diabetic was involved in the very political "humanitarian airdrop" of insulin to the USA. - so I kind of get it)

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#698

Post by jononomo » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:35 PM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

It is important to remember that freedom of speech is more important than having a functioning society of a healthy populace.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#699

Post by Aerroon » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:36 PM UTC

verall wrote: post #28

cedws wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why 16 specifically? Apparently the brain doesn't stop developing until much later, around 25.

The brain never stops developing, why 25? Where does everyone get this darn 25 is when you're grown number from?

It's a pop sci myth that has been repeated enough times that it has a life of its own. It's a meme.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#700

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 2:38 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #598

genrilz wrote: post #571

This is a post in a debate between Jonathan Haidt and Candice Odgers. If you look at the meta-analysis cited by both, Haidt cites one which does seem to show a high effect size correlational link between screen time and depression. Odgers cites 4 meta analyses, one of which is actually a meta-meta analysis, which all claim that the effect size on depression and other measures of well-being are small. I'm not quite su…

"the majority of the evidence seems to point towards it not causing large well-being problems." I can't see how this is true. Anecdotally, everyone I talk to, and you most comments in this thread (and any other thread) is full of people admitting that they A. use their phone too much B. wish they didn't and C. it makes them feel bad. Again, n of 1, but I've never met someone that openly wants to use their phone more…

This article's threads are also filled with people talking about being on their phone too much and wishing they/other people weren't.

It's all self declared though, the same way people will complain they don't exercice enough, they don't eat enough vegetable, they don't read enough books, they didn't stick to their new year's resolution etc.

We can't take people's guilt or self loathing as an indicator of an actual critical problem.