Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#451

Post by worldsayshi » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:26 AM UTC

teekert wrote: post #415

worthless-trash wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the emotional upheaval from her isn't worth it either. If you loved your sister, you should do something, if direct confrontation isnt working, take another route. > In my culture this is exactly what family should do. I assume you mean "family should intervene here", because if you don't who would ?

Sure, you may try (I did and don't regret it, sounds like OP also tried), if only for you to feel better about it yourself. But my experience with addiction in the family is that they can and will drag you down with them. To love is to let go, at some point. My experience (with alcohol addiction) is: Tried to help once, got into problems (set family up with house of a friend), almost got into financial problems mysel…

> So what to do? Hope they take the first step themselves. Be clear that you will help them take steps, but only steps you agree with (I once got alcohol for said family, the begging and bad state got to me, at some point an alcoholic will improve on alcohol), but I still feel bad about that today.

As someone who had to give up on a close friend and addict, you have to set razor sharp boundaries for yourself. And if that doesn't work you have to leave. I think very few people have the capacity to make the right decisions when a loved one is slowly slipping into a hole of misery of their own making while begging you to keep them company on the way down.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#452

Post by nearbuy » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:26 AM UTC

hgomersall wrote: post #276

jimz wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except "struggle" is entirely subjective. In fact, outside of a few things that causes physical dependence (which vary in length except they all, eventually at least, end), the concept of addiction as used by the government does not necessarily match up to how those in the particular field of research would. Government makes laws and laws prefer bright line rules. Something like "did you, without authorization, use t…

Addiction is well defined in research and it certainly does not preclude things that don't cause "physical dependence" by which I assume you use to mean psychoactive drugs. Wikipedia has a better definition right at the top than I can offer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction The crucial point is it is characterised by neurological changes that lead to short circuited reward pathways. The idea of addiction to…

> The crucial point is it is characterised by neurological changes that lead to short circuited reward pathways

Everything that's enjoyable in life can meet that definition. For practical purposes, we only consider severe cases to be addiction, but it's not well-defined. The article you linked says:

> However, there is no agreement on the exact definition of addiction in medicine. Indeed, Volkow et al. (2016) report that the DSM-5 defines addictions as the most severe degree of the addictive disorders, due to pervasive/excessive substance-use or behavioural compulsions/impulses. It is a definition that many scientific papers and reports use.

> The DSM-5 and ICD-10 only recognize gambling addictions as behavioral addictions

I don't think the DSM-5 has any principled reason for recognizing gambling addictions but not video game addiction or shopping addiction, other than gambling addiction being particularly harmful.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#453

Post by arkey » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:26 AM UTC

hgomersall wrote: post #260

lynx23 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is the parents responsibility to set boundaries for their children. It can be complicated at times, granted. But that doesn't make it less of their job. Heck, I got my first CD player with 14. Yes, I felt left out at school, but... guess what, I didn't die. Children need to learn that there are rules, and someone else dictates them. Throwing tantrums is a typical reaction that needs to be weeded out as a p…

As is pointed out in the article, a huge factor is the collective action trap. An individual set of parents can do very little to deal with mental health if they are the only ones.

No, they can do quite a lot, it's just VERY hard, for both the parents and the kids.

But if properly done, it can work. I was/have been the kid in this scenario, and now I'm being the parent and bracing for it.

Social pressure might be a tidal wave, you can either give up, or you can try to stand against it.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#454

Post by callmeal » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:27 AM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

>You may not like FB, IG, TikTok, etc.. I certainly don't care for any of these products. But these are communications platforms.

That may have been true once upon a time (i.e. back in the day when your FB feed was chronological and random posts from unrelated/unwanted crazies would not show up on your device unless a friend forwarded it to you).

Now they are psychological manipulators (remember https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every... ?) in a quest for advertising dollars at the expense of everything else.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#455

Post by YurgenJurgensen » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:28 AM UTC

Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #425

Ban smartphones. It really is that simple. Children and adults alike will benefit.

Banning things is rarely 'simple'.

What is a smartphone? Any computer capable of connecting to a cellular network? Is an iPod touch a smartphone? Would forcing everyone onto WiFi really change much? Is an iPod touch with a Bluetooth 5G modem a smartphone? Then what? Banning battery-powered computers? You've basically destroyed the economy with how many businesses rely on laptops and tablets these days. Ban the form-factor? Is the PS Vita a smartphone? Ban the operating systems? The architectures? Is a cellular Windows x86 Microsoft Surface a smartphone? Is an Apple Watch a smartphone?

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#456

Post by lm28469 » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:29 AM UTC

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

> But it's crazy that a person can get this lost in life and become completely devoid of purpose and meaning.

People have been warning about it since the birth of capitalism and consumerism, although even the most pessimistic ones didn't expect we'd get so far down the rabbit hole, the internet sped up the whole process a thousand times.

The loss of meaning will be the greatest thing we'll have to fight against in this century, we're just at the beginning.

> I just wish there was an easy way out of it.

I personally think it's lost for a few generations, people who fall into the rabbit hole while their brain is still developing will have absolutely no way out.

What makes the system thrive is the same thing that destroys individuals, the group goal is diametrically opposed to the individual needs

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#457

Post by Fricken » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:32 AM UTC

satvikpendem wrote: post #237

olibhel wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, India, these platforms are used less for free speech and more for brainwashing and spreading hate and misinformation. Most of these posts are in Hindi, a major language around here, and call for all kinds of hate such as suppression of a specific religion, call for genocide, invading and acquiring neighboring countries etc. I've tried reporting such posts multiple times but hate filled posts are neithe…

How is this example any different than what the parent has said? If people feel these platforms are negatively impacting them, they should stop using them. Or do you believe others or the government has a right to disallow what people want to watch via their own choices? You may call it brainwashing but others may disagree.

Hate speech and incitements to violence against the Rohingya precipitated for years on Facebook. Deleting the app would not have saved the Rohingya from getting genocided.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#458

Post by heresie-dabord » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:34 AM UTC

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

I understand your frustration and -- perhaps -- a feeling of having no agency in the situation. But at the same time I find this sentence fascinating and scary:

> It's her life so I leave her alone, not my place to tell her what to do, and the emotional upheaval from her isn't worth it either.

Inverting the order of your explanations (to examine the weighting), we have:

    estimated low return for investment/effort
    avoidance of drama (the other's emotional upheaval) 
    relinquishment of participatory role in guiding the other
    relinquishment of influence/interest in the other's life

If you were a parent talking about your child, people would certainly admonish you. Yet because she is a young adult and you are merely siblings, many more people might agree with your complete detachment.

Can a person who obviously needs guidance/intervention not be worth the time ? Even though the person is in one's family ?

The narcissocial media actively create an illusion that gratifies loneliness and isolation. Modern urban life had already become a reality of denaturing, competition, isolation, and indifference. The antipatterns run deep.

But then you add...

> But it's crazy that a person can get this lost in life and become completely devoid of purpose and meaning.

Your family member seems to be in need of help. It takes a family/village, as they say. We too often omit to remind ourselves that a person becomes a person through other people. [1]

[1] _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_philosophy

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#459

Post by HlessClaudesman » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:35 AM UTC

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

She may not be aware that there is a problem. My understanding is that game / social media addiction is an attempt to not think about real life things, including acknowledging that so much time has been wasted staring into the black mirror.

My advice is to let her know that you think she has a media addiction, then at least she has some level of awareness.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#460

Post by xinayder » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 10:35 AM UTC

skilled wrote: post #337

I'm no saint when it comes to addiction and being on my phone for more than I should be, but I have a sister who is in her mid 20s right now, and for the last couple of years she has slowly isolated herself from life and her family, she spends most of her time in her room on the phone and does weird things like get cosmetic surgeries, ordering cosmetics, etc. It's bizarre. She does this and all the while never leaves…

I try to avoid mainstream social media because it makes me uncomfortable. I started after putting on my tinfoil hat after Snowden's revelations and slowly drifted away from them, then was dragged back because most of my friends had Twitter, then I decided to finally get rid of my Twitter after Musk bought it.

I have instagram and almost never use it. It's addicting to me in a sense that when I have nothing to do I'll open up the app and endlessly scroll through the feed, check stories of people I follow. It made me uncomfortable because all of the stories of people I know looked fake somehow, everyone smiling, having a good time, making specific poses to look good on Instagram, but in reality their life is not full of roses. It made me uncomfortable when I had bad days, where I felt like I was never going to achieve the happiness people show on the social network. Luckily, wen this thought occurred, I was able to pinpoint it and say "well, this is NOT real, they are just faking it for likes and followers. you should feel good that you don't have this and you should value personal contact over likes on a website".

Since then I only use Instagram to browse for dog/pet videos.

But I have some acquaintances that they act like their life depends on instagram. Hell, I had a friend who spent all of her time watching stupid tiktok videos disseminating fake news and pseudoscience (and she was studying to become a psychologist), reading stupid things on facebook, and when she wasn't busy with this she would constantly complain to me how she self-evaluated that she had depression and anxiety, how her life is shitty. She was a pretty woman and all the time told me she wanted to change her appearance because of something she saw on facebook or tiktok, and I guess it wasn't enough for me to tell her she was perfect the way she is, even with her issues. She never listened and tried to convince me that the cosmetic changes she'd do weren't permanent.