Not to brag, but there are so few things to actually feel some civic pride for in America, and business registration is one of them, so I guess we have that. I can get an IRS EIN (tax ID), register an LLC, obtain a sales tax license (only required for selling stuff), and open a business checking account in about 2 hours in Colorado. Someone who knows what they’re doing and doesn’t spend time researching banking optio…
How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
981–990 of 1001 posts
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#982Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey nicbou, a fantastic website thanks for your efforts. While reading your Bank article I noticed a potentially outdated information concerning ING as I am also an expat and was able open a bank account there. "ING: You need German permanent residence or citizenship to open an account. Some students could open an account with a residence permit. Their customer support speaks English."
I'm rewriting it as we speak. It's my main focus this month. Can you tell me more? When and where did you open an account? What residence title do you have and what is your nationality? Feel free to email me the answer if you prefer privacy.
Opened end of 2022, fully online. I have italian citizenship; my residence title was just... resident? I had the Anmeldung for the apartment I was living in.
But it wasn't all easy. I needed:
- A german telephone number.
- A document (with a MRZ) with my german address in it.
- Not sure but maybe they also asked about my job?
The document was critical for me; I had to go to my embassy and apply for a new id that had my german address.
Also everything was fully in german, no english whatsoever.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#983Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since 2008 you can found a "UG" ("Mini GmbH") that doesn't require that much upfront capital. It can be foundet with 1 Euro. The catch is that you need use 25% of your yearly revenue until you reached the 25k of a proper GmbH. https://www.firma.de/en/company-formation/what-is-a-ug-haftu...
correction: 25% of the yearly profit
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#984Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't Japan the industrialized nation with the lowest fraction of foreigners?
AFAICT, Japan has the easiest immigration for skilled professionals, by far. However, this has been the case for less than 10 years, as they totally revamped their immigration laws in the 2010s sometime to try to attract more such people, so of course it's going to take time to see the difference. Japan is also somewhat difficult for foreigners to live in because of the language barrier, but Germany isn't that differ…
This is a bit of an understatement. Japanese is a category-V language, taking an estimated 88 weeks of full-time study to learn, while German is a category-II language taking just 30 weeks.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#985Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That only leaves France and Belgium. Did they do well? Looking at France and the quality of their industrial output in the 70s to 90s, ranging from high-speed trains, rockets, passenger airplanes, Concorde, helicopters, (racing) cars, submarines, nuclear power plants, medical labs, etc. I would say yes. Their infrastructure has also been of high quality, so has the education system of their elites, and their health…
> France France also has kind-of a colonial empire still going on. Could that have an effect? > The house you are getting has not improved 3 fold in quality compared to 20 years ago That's true, but there is likely the 80/20 principle at play. Every additional level of quality costs more and more to achieve. Not to mention that often the increase of quality isn't really noticeable. Eg lead paint vs not, better wiring…
They were officially post-colonial by that time, and what is left is perhaps more a financial drain than a net income gain, although geostrategically invaluable.
> Every additional level of quality costs more and more to achieve. Not to mention that often the increase of quality isn't really noticeable. Eg lead paint vs not, better wiring (fewer house fires), better insulation (lower heating costs), better air circulation (less mold) etc.
They might increase cost, or they might not, as they are logical continuation of progress (as in, does lead-less paint really cost more to produce than leaded paint?) but in the end, they are "marginal" costs on a house, maybe in the order of 15%? So by themselves, they are not going to increase the price by 300%.
> I'm from a former Soviet state.
That brings a very different perspective, yes. Having spent quite a lot of time in eastern Europe, it is clear that the life experienced in that period was very, very different, and that many improvements where brought in, in quality and quantity.
But taking the road example, if you go to Belgium, you will have the joy of experiencing the inverse phenomenon, with a decrepit infrastructure that has been much, much better in the past. Imagine the moon surface you described, and then on a motorway, with cars driving by at 130 kph.. I've seen motorway signs covered in moss, as if an apocalypse had hit.
For clothes, I have items that were bought at the turn of the century and are still "wearable", but no recent clothing item seem to survive more than a year or two, independently of the cost. Which is an annoyance: I wouldn't mind paying more for something that lasts, but, so far, haven't found a brand that does. Of course, the current state of affair is an upgrade on the quality and quantity of clothing that was available in ex Eastern-block states. (Although, as bad as the fabric and colors were, I can only assume that they were built to last?)
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#986Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is pretentious however is to judge without having experimenting it. "no lessons can be learned from Chinese bureaucracy about how to deal with immigrants." is quite a bold statement... But you go ahead, state that the way other countries are doing things are irrelevant because of almighty statistics etc. (in absolute numbers, 0.07% of immigrants in China represents more people than the population of either Franc…
The absolute numbers are irrelevant. It's almost bizarre to me that you don't see that. But even though I haven't experienced it myself, I do have plenty of anecdotal evidence against your statement, e.g. I watched serpentza's Youtube channel for a long time and heard many other first-hand accounts of people working in China. A colleague of mine is also working in China. Some have no troubles, others have to report t…
I sincerely hope that you'll get the opportunity to experiment with the immigration process in China which is straightforward and hope that people may overcome the initial reluctance to draw some of the lessons from a country that is far away and has a questionable political system. I am not saying that it is perfect, I am just stating that we have things to learn from it and that I believe it is sad to just overturn anything that comes from countries that are different.
I believe we can end this thread here as it seems that we will definitely not agree, but that's OK. Have a good day and sorry if my behavior appeared as rude to you.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#987Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? There’s always a lot of hand-wringing and FUD around giving people ID numbers, but never a coherent rational argument. What makes it a big brother nightmare for all humans?
Like all automation, having a database of your population greatly increases your efficiency, without regard to whether this power is used to do good or to do evil. There are many still alive who remember the evils done by the Stasi, when I was a child, there were many who remembered the evils done by the Gestapo; when those are your core examples of a citizen database, such thing naturally seems "big brother". The ir…
Really? For what purposes exactly?
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#988Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You have a person number and authorities store everything centrally. A big brother nightmare for Germans. Should be a big brother nightmare for all humans. Your number is 666.
So having a health database, drivers license database, social security, banking etc are all ok but creating a proper national ID system would somehow push it over the edge to where an authoritarian government can come about and take control of our lives? Your argument boils down to “let’s purposely make our government inefficient because it might one day turn on us” Which, judging from other countries, is actually th…
But for what do a drivers license database, social security numbers exist? And why should a country/state know your bank account number(s)?
Etatism is cancer.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#989Earlier quoted context omitted.
So having a health database, drivers license database, social security, banking etc are all ok but creating a proper national ID system would somehow push it over the edge to where an authoritarian government can come about and take control of our lives? Your argument boils down to “let’s purposely make our government inefficient because it might one day turn on us” Which, judging from other countries, is actually th…
Health data is a difficult topic. But for what do a drivers license database, social security numbers exist? And why should a country/state know your bank account number(s)? Etatism is cancer.
To keep bad drivers off the road? To suspend privileges when you kill someone with your car?
Social security numbers were originally created for linking people to their social security accounts but has now become our national ID because there is an inherit need for one in the modern world. The problem with SSNs is that they were never designed for their current use-case.
> And why should a country/state know your bank account number(s)?
A state will always have access to and the capability of seizing your account funds. This is a necessity for a multitude of reasons that I can list out, but I'll let you use your imagination.
Take a look around the world. Take a look at history. Autocrats don't need an efficient ID system to take control of their citizens. People willingly give up their freedoms and align themselves with autocrats when they use the same propaganda and fear-mongering tactics that have been used for centuries. It has nothing to do with the government amassing a database of their population. Once the autocrats are in control, they will create whatever system they require.
The only way to avoid tyranny is to fight for liberal values at the ballot box. Anything else is bullshit. Your guns won't do shit when your local militia is aligned with the autocrat in control.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#990Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tangential question for third-country nationals in Berlin (like me right now): Does the Berlin immigration office readily give EU Blue Cards to people in that arrangement, or do they say it's really a form of self-employment because you own the company you're working for? And do the public health insurance funds treat this as employment or self-employment for purposes of qualifying for public health insurance, for pe…
The freelance visa requires a local economic interest (a reason to live here), usually in the form of German customers. There is nothing mentioned about where the company is registered and it should not matter. Practically though, the immigration office's bureaucrats are by definition as far removed from entrepreneurship as they can be, and might struggle to reconcile the documents you have with the list of documents…
My impression is that working for a company one substantially owns or controls, regardless of where it is registered, can lead to them deciding that it's self-employment and disqualifying a third-country national from using that work as the basis for an EU Blue Card or GKV.
Also, the rules for obtaining an EU Blue Card (or a skilled worker permit) require the employer to have a place of business in Germany, and that might be hard to demonstrate when the only tie to Germany is the location of the applicant. No idea if just renting a German office address for the business would suffice. At least Americans, Canadians, and other §41 AufenthV Abs 1 nationalities can bypass this obstacle with the §26 BeschV permit instead, with some extra approval and priority check paperwork. But this doesn't help with the issues in the previous paragraph of potentially being viewed as self-employment for immigration and insurance purposes.