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Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

reuters.com

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Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#31

Post by cm2187 »

amou234 wrote: post #5

The last blurb in the article is the most damning part. "Ma spends much of his time abroad, especially in Japan where he is a visiting professor at Tokyo College, a research institute run by the University of Tokyo" Jack Ma has no hope for China, as evident by his action. The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image. But Jack sees the…

Do you read his teaching job as a pretext to be in Japan or has his wealth been somewhat confiscated?

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#32

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

RangerScience wrote: post #12
non-chalad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't communism supposed to be achieved through authoritarianism, after which the state "withers away" [sic]?

AFAIK (“Seeing like a State”), that’s specific to the Leninist modality. I very well could be misinformed, but, the book mentions essentially a moment where democratic-socialism was co-opted by authoritarian communism (Leninism), so that’s what the world ended up with.

[flagged]

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#33

Post by gscott »

maxglute wrote: post #24
roenxi wrote: post #2

Just going by appearances, the story at the time looked a lot like Jack Ma fleeing the country for a bit. One minute he was disturbing the tranquillity in China then the next he was picking up some Zen among the cherry blossoms. It is interesting to compare-and-contrast Jack Ma and Elon Musk who seems to me the nearest analogue in the US. How their host countries treat them says a lot about the real cultural differen…

> it is safe to build wealth in the US It's safe to build OBSCENE wealth in the states. It's safe to build wealth in PRC, plenty of 10-100 millionaires. It's also safe to build OBSCENE wealth in PRC, but it comes with more political caveats. Like not trying circumvent regulators by launching irresponsible fintech. Which system is better depends on how much you value checking billionaires.

Building wealth in China you have to keep it there due to tight capital controls.

In the USA you can transfer it out of the country if you want to.

https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3212414...

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/china-s-rich-are...

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/china-banks-waits-072...

https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/getting-money-out-o...

https://www.afr.com/world/asia/smurfing-strangers-how-china-...

https://agbrief.com/news/china/24/01/2024/china-tightens-con...

https://www.uschina.org/china%E2%80%99s-capital-controls-cho...

https://www.ft.com/chinese-capital-controls

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#34

Post by WrongAssumption »

maxglute wrote: post #24
roenxi wrote: post #2

Just going by appearances, the story at the time looked a lot like Jack Ma fleeing the country for a bit. One minute he was disturbing the tranquillity in China then the next he was picking up some Zen among the cherry blossoms. It is interesting to compare-and-contrast Jack Ma and Elon Musk who seems to me the nearest analogue in the US. How their host countries treat them says a lot about the real cultural differen…

> it is safe to build wealth in the US It's safe to build OBSCENE wealth in the states. It's safe to build wealth in PRC, plenty of 10-100 millionaires. It's also safe to build OBSCENE wealth in PRC, but it comes with more political caveats. Like not trying circumvent regulators by launching irresponsible fintech. Which system is better depends on how much you value checking billionaires.

There are over 100 billionaires in the Chinese parliament, the US congress has zero billionaires.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#35

Post by dragonelite »

Dalewyn wrote: post #23
55555 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a phenomenon we see in the entire developed world, or possibly the entire world, including in the west and Japan (NEETs, Hikikomori).

No, NEET stands for "Not Employed, Educating, or Training" and Hikikomori translates literally to "Pulling Back In". Both phenomena result in the individual abdicating his productivity in deference to pursuits such as resolving crises and introspection. Tang Ping on the other hand is a phenomenon where the individual only produces as much as his environment demands of him. If he contracted with his employer to work 9…

So Tang ping is quiet quitting, i pretty much do the same 95% of the time. The boss pays me from 9 to 5 so once its 5 and no important deadline i stop at 5 and live my life.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#36

Post by barfbagginus »

amou234 wrote: post #5

The last blurb in the article is the most damning part. "Ma spends much of his time abroad, especially in Japan where he is a visiting professor at Tokyo College, a research institute run by the University of Tokyo" Jack Ma has no hope for China, as evident by his action. The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image. But Jack sees the…

[flagged]

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#37

Post by throwaway4good »

resolutebat wrote: post #26
throwaway4good wrote: post #10

I was listening to Nicolai Tangen's interview with Alibaba co-founder Joe Tsai: https://www.nbim.no/en/publications/podcast/alibaba-co-found... Alibaba co-founder and Chair: China, Jack Ma, AI and basketball And while smart and sympathetic, I cannot help to think that Alibaba is a company of the past belonging to a time of a certain US-China order that is no more. The future of Chinese tech belongs to companies that…

Alibaba was fast moving, fearless and aggressively deep tech, you don't survive the world of Chinese e-commerce if you aren't. They were decapitated and neutered by the Chinese state when they started to show signs of upending the existing order, specifically building a competing financial system (Alipay/Ant) and daring to call out Chinese economic orthodoxy.

By deep tech I thinking things more like making your own chips rather than running a ponzi scheme :-D

Anyway. If you listen to the Tsai interview he seems more concerned about US regulators than Chinese.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#38

Post by defrost »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #32
RangerScience wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK (“Seeing like a State”), that’s specific to the Leninist modality. I very well could be misinformed, but, the book mentions essentially a moment where democratic-socialism was co-opted by authoritarian communism (Leninism), so that’s what the world ended up with.

[flagged]

Were, not Are ... from your own link:

> Marxism–Leninism was the first official ideology of the CCP.

Mao Zedong Thought was some time ago and since then various directions the CCP has taken have been criticized as being un-Marxist and a betrayal of basic Marxist values.

The Authoritarian edge has always been there in the CCP, ebbing and flowing with the years .. but that part is distinctly un-(classical)-communism.

Like Capitalism "Twue Communism" has never really existed, even the big names in modern "communism" have said on the record that they represent authoritarian "on behalf of the people" (sort of) socialist control as a neccessary means on the way to a true workers paradise (barf) .. you know, a classic bait and switch to mask a system being just another variation of top down control.

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#39

Post by fransje26 »

amou234 wrote: post #5

The last blurb in the article is the most damning part. "Ma spends much of his time abroad, especially in Japan where he is a visiting professor at Tokyo College, a research institute run by the University of Tokyo" Jack Ma has no hope for China, as evident by his action. The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image. But Jack sees the…

> The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image.

Or directly written by them under his name..

Re: Jack Ma steps out from the shadows with morale-boosting post

#40

Post by amou234 »

fransje26 wrote: post #39
amou234 wrote: post #5

The last blurb in the article is the most damning part. "Ma spends much of his time abroad, especially in Japan where he is a visiting professor at Tokyo College, a research institute run by the University of Tokyo" Jack Ma has no hope for China, as evident by his action. The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image. But Jack sees the…

> The long internal post may have been requested by the Chinese government, or his staff, to somehow rally Alibaba's failing image. Or directly written by them under his name..

wouldn't put it past the Chinese government.

The young in China are so disillusioned, they are buying gold in droves this year [1] (instead of putting it in bank, or invest in stock market or real estate)

[1] https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240221-youth-appetit...

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