Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#111

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:57 AM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #105

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

I don't think you have to destroy internet anonymity. Just fine parents like $25 or $50 bucks every time anyone can link their kid to social media use. Give people rewards for reporting it or something. Even as little as driving kids towards platforms that incentivize anonymous interaction over real name and face stuff is probably enough move the needle. That said, I think social media use has a very overlapping rela…

[deleted]

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#112

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:58 AM UTC

hollerith wrote: post #99

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

>that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity I am skeptical of this push to elevate internet anonymity to a new fundamental principle for organizing society.

I would not feel safe painting a target on my back if I was required to attach my legal name to my comments, especially the ones advocating for queer rights.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#113

Post by Aurornis » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:58 AM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #107

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

It doesn’t have to be a technical ban. Just make it the law and let companies, schools, parents, and kids take their punishment when found to happen. This should be enough for the risk averse to take open devices away from children and bolster parents. It’s not important to stop every possible access, simply that adults have the authority to say no and be supported by society instead of undermined.

> It doesn’t have to be a technical ban. Just make it the law and let companies, schools, parents, and kids take their punishment when found to happen

You’re describing a ban.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#114

Post by mptest » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:58 AM UTC

hollerith wrote: post #99

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

>that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity I am skeptical of this push to elevate internet anonymity to a new fundamental principle for organizing society.

>elevate internet anonymity to a new fundamental principle for organizing society

You mean privacy? Internet anonymity is a downstream byproduct of our right to privacy, not some new concept devised in the internet age. We've had the fourth amendment for quite some time.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#115

Post by _heimdall » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:00 AM UTC

naasking wrote: post #109

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

Achieving 90% of not is simpler than you think: ban smartphones from schools during school bours. If the parents want the kid to have a phone, then the parents can get a flip phone.

Would this be a federal ban, a state-level ban managed by education boards, or something else?

And how is it enforced exactly? Are parents held responsible, or are state education funds impacted somehow based on smartphone use?

Would we need a federal mandate to require flip phone / feature phone support? The last time I tried to find a feature phone it wasn't easy, many depend on 2G/3G networks which are losing support and carriers have absolutely no incentive to carry feature phones when smartphones are all that sell.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#116

Post by Aurornis » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:01 AM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

> that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity.

This is why I can’t take any calls for banning social media for kids on HN seriously: The moment anyone introduced any legislation to limit social media access by age, this creates a de facto requirement to verify ID. The people in this thread would be up in arms as soon as the government tried to force companies to collect their ID to use social media.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#117

Post by imp0cat » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:03 AM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #25

atleastoptimal wrote: post #7

The solution is unironically just to do what China does. Create restrictions on how long kids can use the web and what they can use. It won't be perfect but it will be the biggest influence towards better habits and cultural norms.

Are Chinese people happier then Americans or Europeans?

Definitely. They have to.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#118

Post by imgabe » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:03 AM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

There are two avenues to deal with a hazard. You can try to manipulate the environment to eliminate the hazard, or you can try to strengthen people to make them immune to the hazard. I think we should prefer the latter over the former whenever possible.

For one thing, it's more robust. The environment is messy and control is often illusory at best. Control limits freedoms and introduces centralized points of failure that can be manipulated by bad actors. Making people strong and free creates more opportunity and innovation, even though it scares the people who long to be in charge of the centralized control.

What does it mean to strengthen people to make them immune to the harms caused by social media? I don't know exactly, but I bet we could find out.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#119

Post by willcipriano » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:04 AM UTC

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #103

willcipriano wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> completely destroying internet anonymity. Stores that sell age restricted products already can also sell "adult passes". Each adult pass costs less than $5, and contains a single use scratch off code that you can use to prove you are of age. When you want to sign up for social media or porn, you need a code. Mutiple companies can implement and sell them.

There would be a huge black market of selling to the underage immediately defeating the purpose.

Checking ID to prevent the sale of tobacco to children may not prevent them from ever smoking but is considered better than nothing. This product would be sold in exactly the same manner at the same locations.

Prevents kids from stumbling onto it by accident at very least.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#120

Post by _heimdall » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:04 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #78

I find sadly amusing the argument that kids need their phones in school in case of emergency. If the kid has an emergency, the teacher can call the parents. If the parents are having an emergency, the can call the school.

From what I've seen, parents have been made extremely fearful of a mass shooter type of incident. The "need" for smartphones in school is seen as a way to get in touch with a child when the absolute worst has happened.

Ironically, the same logic often isn't appreciated for those who choose to legally carry a gun.