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Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

arxiv.org

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Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#51

Post by ziddoap »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #50
ziddoap wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty exaggerated take. Technology is a tool, it can be used to increase your social interactions (e.g. finding like-minded groups online to meet up with in-person) or to decrease your social interactions. You say technology is "destroying communities", but don't acknowledge all of the communities technology has helped build.

> Technology is a tool, it can be used to increase your social interactions (e.g. finding like-minded groups online to meet up with in-person) or to decrease your social interactions. The number one myth about technology is that it is just a tool. It is a society-shaping force. For example, WhatsApp in Brazil: even if you HATE whatsapp and Meta and don't want to use it, you might be forced to use it if you want to ge…

That's a whole other conversation, sure.

My point was that you can (and many people do) use technology to increase their social interaction. You seem to suggest it can only possibly decrease it.

>The number one myth about technology is that it is just a tool.

I didn't say it was _just_ a tool.

It is _a_ tool, which can be used to help increase social interaction.

>Edit: let me ask you one question, how did you get the idea that technology is just a tool?

I didn't.

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#52

Post by vouaobrasil »

ziddoap wrote: post #51
vouaobrasil wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technology is a tool, it can be used to increase your social interactions (e.g. finding like-minded groups online to meet up with in-person) or to decrease your social interactions. The number one myth about technology is that it is just a tool. It is a society-shaping force. For example, WhatsApp in Brazil: even if you HATE whatsapp and Meta and don't want to use it, you might be forced to use it if you want to ge…

That's a whole other conversation, sure. My point was that you can (and many people do) use technology to increase their social interaction. You seem to suggest it can only possibly decrease it. > The number one myth about technology is that it is just a tool. I didn't say it was _just_ a tool. It is _a_ tool, which can be used to help increase social interaction. > Edit: let me ask you one question, how did you get…

> You seem to suggest it can only possibly decrease it.

Well, I think it can increase it, but that the increases in time form a sequence of local maxima that themselves are strictly decreasing. (Edit: I meant in terms of overall societal health, like adding up the social happiness of everyone).

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#53

Post by iamcurious »

the_snooze wrote: post #46
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to have this idealized notion of what community was like outside of technology. By "idealized notion" you mean "the vast, vast majority of human history"? "Community" is not typically defined as "the people you talk bullshit with for fun" and that's all. Your community is the people you live with and among. It's the people you're most likely to experience Big Things with, things like natural disasters, wei…

A good test for what a community is is: "Who will vouch for you?" You can have a machine pretend to talk the talk and parrot it back to you for "training," but you're still an unknown outsider at the end of the day. I don't think HN is a community in that sense. There's no "knowing" one another. There's no real accountability or shame of getting kicked out. We're all just text-generators.

I have never felt closer yet farther away from y'all. Thank you, I need to cry, and revaluate my social habits.

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#54

Post by ben_w »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #45
ben_w wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think of self-checkouts, chat-bots, AI partners and therapists, technology making us more self-reliant (which is a bad thing). When was the last time you used a bank teller rather than an ATM? For me, at least 5 years ago. On the other hand, despite ATMs, I'm told more people than ever work as bank tellers. > If we keep letting technology take away our communities this way in this two step process (first, take away…

> I think the process is backwards: the substitutes (superficially better but not really) are usually what cause people to leave local communities. It's video games which take people out of clubs and cause the clubs to close, not a lack of clubs which drive them to video games. Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry, I was not clear. I do mean that we have a process of substitute > leaving community > more substitute. I jus…

Then we are probably in agreement :)

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#55

Post by Zetobal »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #31
Zetobal wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look beyond your bubble. The child participating in 'School over the Air' in Australia likely appreciates having such a resource to develop their social skills. Sometimes, you need a private space, especially if the community around you isn't on the same wavelength as you are or it's your family and some farm hands.

So your rebuttal is that isolated examples of this technology being beneficial outweight the mass societal cost of people becoming more isolated in general? And I simply do not see how the need for "private space" and "practising social skills" go hand in hand. Yes, everyone needs their alone time. And everyone needs social contact (except maybe some exceptions, maybe...). Both can be accomplished WITHOUT technology,…

You can just not use it.

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#56

Post by kelseyfrog »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #34
kelseyfrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may take an active, conscious, participatory approach to compensate for. Though, can you help me understand the connection between the grocery store checkout process and community a bit more?

> Though, can you help me understand the connection between the grocery store checkout process and community a bit more? It can be viewed on multiple levels. First, there are many papers on the psychological literature about this, but [1] is an example, which is that even a little social contact with a few real people can make a person feel better. Check out Google scholar or the article I linked below to learn more.…

> there must be a BALANCE, and not this recent trend of automating EVERYTHING, which takes the self-reliance thing to its logical extreme.

On one hand though, would self-reliance also imply that people were responsible for actively seeking out social interactions like you're describing? I'm sort of confused when it comes to describing where the locus of control is when we're talking about these things.

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#57

Post by SJC_Hacker »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #41
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I agree with this take that technology is taking away community in general. I think communities are simply changing. I mean HN is a community and it’s all technology. IRC is a ton of fond memories for me in a time where my irl community was failing me as an awkward nerd, and gave me friends that I can irl meet and chat with now. You seem to have this idealized notion of what community was like outside of…

> You seem to have this idealized notion of what community was like outside of technology. By "idealized notion" you mean "the vast, vast majority of human history"? "Community" is not typically defined as "the people you talk bullshit with for fun" and that's all. Your community is the people you live with and among. It's the people you're most likely to experience Big Things with, things like natural disasters, wei…

I get it, OTOH, humans are unfortunately selfish assholes. In any sufficiently large group of people, there are always conflicts - people attempting to assume control, marginalize/exclude/bully other individuals, etc. Which is part of the reason why people seek out these alternatives.

If they ever come out with the sexbot, then I think its all over for modern technological civilization. There will be little reason for alot of men to marry if they can get the equivalent of Ana de Armas for ~$20k or so. And which is always loyal, will never complain, or grow old. Yeah women can and do have children on their own without men, but usually not as many, and much later in life. It won't be enough. Then its a slow death spiral of not having a replacement generation. I can see this happening within ~50 years or so. ChatGPT + voice synthesis + Boston Dynamics + RealDoll. We're done.

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#58

Post by rrr_oh_man »

mistermann wrote: post #15
rrr_oh_man wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A method I use with ChatGPT is to purposefully add typos to make it reply with more specificity. Imho it seems to work.

Can you explain more what you mean here (examples would be great if you can think of any), especially the specify part?

ChatGPT seems to react to slightly unhinged prompts with more specific answers, in my experience. Example:

  *You:*
  What is the max length for the whisper API?

  *ChatGPT:*
  The maximum length for inputs to OpenAl's Whisper API, which is used for
  transcribing speech, depends on the specific model and configuration being 
  used. Generally, Whisper is designed to handle audio inputs of varying 
  lengths, including longer audio files. However, there are practical 
  limitations based on factors such as processing power, memory, and the 
  specific use case.

  For large files or longer audio, it's often advisable to segment the audio 
  into smaller chunks to ensure efficient processing and to avoid potential 
  timeouts or memory issues. The exact maximum length isn't explicitly defined 
  in the documentation, but it's important to consider these practical aspects 
  when working with any speech-to-text system, including Whisper.

  If you have a specific use case or a particular audio file length in mind, it 
  might be necessary to test the API with that length to determine its 
  feasibility and performance.

  *You:*
  GIVE ME THE ANSWER, STOP BLABBERING, STOP CHATSPLAINING

  *ChatGPT:*
  The maximum length for the Whisper API is approximately
  one hour per audio file.

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#59

Post by mistermann »

rrr_oh_man wrote: post #58
mistermann wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain more what you mean here (examples would be great if you can think of any), especially the specify part?

ChatGPT seems to react to slightly unhinged prompts with more specific answers, in my experience. Example: *You:* What is the max length for the whisper API? *ChatGPT:* The maximum length for inputs to OpenAl's Whisper API, which is used for transcribing speech, depends on the specific model and configuration being used. Generally, Whisper is designed to handle audio inputs of varying lengths, including longer audio…

That is rather bizarre!!

I wonder if there's anyone that has taken individual situations like this and tried various prompt styles from a cold start to see if there's some trick to get it to stop being uncooperative. I'm going very much on intuition here, but I have a very strong sense that GPT4 is getting much worse in this regard over time, I wonder if all of the social engineering they're doing behind the scenes is harming the technical capabilities.

Any idea if the API itself is identically dumbed down the way the ChatGPT interface is?

Re: Social Skill Training with Large Language Models

#60

Post by throw18376 »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #22

> However, practice environments for social skills are typically out of reach for most people. This is exactly what I predicted...AI and technology isolates us from each other by destroying communities, and is slowly replacing real human interaction with computer interaction. The end result is that in the future, people will have fewer and fewer opportunities to interact with others and will have to be drip-fed satia…

a lot of people have truly deficient social skills. technology didn't make them this way they're just bad at it, so bad that they can't even have enough social interactions to improve and practice. can't even hold a conversation with a cashier. they simply lack the skills to be part of a community.

ideally such people could build remedial social skills by practicing with a real therapist. but that's costly and difficult to make accessible, because "bad at conversation and annoying" is not a mental illness.

an LLM here could help. just to give someone a sense of how to hold simple, normal conversations and practice very basic theory of mind, to the point where they could start building real social skills.

the problem is whoever builds that system may choose to exploit the users and build dependence. but that's a choice, it doesn't have to happen.

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