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Find My Device on Android

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Re: Find My Device on Android

#271

Post by prmoustache »

causi wrote: post #33
ddalex wrote: post #3

I love my Tile(s), but since the AirTag and now Android networks now feature the same capability, I feel their model is dead in the water since they don't own the platform and can't compete on the installed base. They should have sold out (edit: to a mobile platform company, either Google or Apple) while they had the chance.

As someone who owns about eight of them, I don't see how you could love Tile. They have a ridiculous profit margin and the company likes to engage in asshole practices like making it so getting a notification when you lose connection with a tile is a fucking monthly subscription. Companies that charge for things which cost them literally zero dollars deserve to burn to the ground.

Hmmm if all that is true why do you have so many of them?

Re: Find My Device on Android

#272

Post by cbeach »

fsflover wrote: post #268
cbeach wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we were to force all new technologies to be interoperable with all technologies from all possible competitors we’d create a Kafkaesque nightmare for innovators and particularly early stage startups.

Like, you know, the Internet?

Indeed. Good example. If Cerf, Kahn and others had been forced to make the internet (as we know it today) compatible with with nascent competitors such as X.25, Cyclades, OGAS and EIN, it would have compromised the design process with a “too many chefs” problem.

Also would have forced the Internet to a lowest common denominator of capability.

Re: Find My Device on Android

#273

Post by prmoustache »

cbeach wrote: post #257
bevekspldnw wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical Apple hiding behind the walled garden to avoid actual competition via users not having any path to switching platforms. The Apple value prop used to be “it all works together”, now it’s “half the shit you spent thousands on won’t work if you leave the island”. The Tim Cook era is great for stock holders, but he’s one of the prime enshittifiers in Silicon Valley.

If we were to force all new technologies to be interoperable with all technologies from all possible competitors we’d create a Kafkaesque nightmare for innovators and particularly early stage startups.

Shouldn't they just all publish the RFCs and actually implement the techs the way they are written in the RFCs?

Re: Find My Device on Android

#275

Post by prmoustache »

Shawnj2 wrote: post #196
lxgr wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it isn't. The time of interoperable standards in consumer devices is long past. Bluetooth used to support file transfers from device to device on feature- and early smartphones no matter the brand; now there's AirDrop (and maybe sometimes Google Nearby, but only if the humidity and lunar phase is just right). In home audio streaming, there was once DLNA; now there's AirPlay and Google Cast. We have two mutu…

Bluetooth file transfer was always nearly useless in my experience, airdrop was somewhat revolutionary in that it actually worked reliably most of the time

I would say bluetooth file transfer has always been reliably slow. So good enough for small files, not for larges.

But much more reliable than pairing and connecting/reconnecting to audio devices for example.

Re: Find My Device on Android

#276

Post by md_ »

ranguna wrote: post #270
md_ wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that doesn't use the "find my device" netowrk. I think the parent wasn't saying, "I want an app that continually reports its location to my server so I can monitor my phone's location." Indeed, that's fairly trivial to build, but is useless if, say, your phone doesn't have internet access (like, someone turns it off or it runs out of battery). The thing Google is announcing here is like the Apple "find my" networ…

> your phone doesn't have internet access > simply based on a BLE ping What if they disable Bluetooth? The linked open source find my device app uses cell network to both receive commands and for location.

On Apple's devices, you cannot disable that BLE broadcast. The same is true on the Pixel 8: https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/8/24123909/google-pixel-8-pr.... That's the whole point of this design, and fundamentally different than just having some app ping a server once in a while so long as it has network access.

Re: Find My Device on Android

#277

Post by extraduder_ire »

mikae1 wrote: post #235
ryukoposting wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a chronic loser of keys and wallets, I recognize the user need here. However, this is a prime example of a piece of software that can only be trusted when an open-source implementation is provided. Google and their customers don't have much to gain through a proprietary implementation. If anything, open-sourcing Find My Device Network would allow third party devices to join the network, enhancing its value to Goog…

> this is a prime example of a piece of software that can only be trusted when an open-source implementation is provided. Try FMD. https://f-droid.org/packages/de.nulide.findmydevice/

This only works on the device itself, and while it can contact the internet or SMS. It's more akin to a self-hosted version of device locating features pre-airtag.

I think the real utility of tile/airtag/google-find-my-device is the network of other colluding devices listening for bluetooth pings and reporting on the location. Not least because apple (maybe google, don't know) forces your device to send reports if you want to use the feature. Heck, on modern phone OSs, you can't use BLE in apps without turning on the location service.

Re: Find My Device on Android

#278

Post by cookiengineer »

ssl-3 wrote: post #236
cookiengineer wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would an open source version allow anyone to track anyone? The ultimate stalker app... An open source version would make absolute no difference on what is trackable. That's the point: transparency is necessary with critical data like this.

Open-source software would allow us to see how that published software handles our data, but it would not allow us to see how the cumulative sum of that data is handled after it is passed over to a central body. Unless, of course: That centralized data store were also open -- perhaps even by using something like DNS -- but then, anyone of sufficient skill would be able to craft an application to see where others' thi…

An open source backend that requires end to end encryption on a per-user-storage basis, while not sharing those keys in the open source client (reference implementation) could effectively prevent third parties from seeing the data.

Something like shamir's secret sharing with split up keys effectively making the encrypted data useless, or based on time frames so you can only track the last "epoche" (like the last 24 hours, maybe?) similar to how HOTP/TOTP works could work nicely I'd imagine.

At Tholian (my company) we're using team based keys where at least 2 of x keys (the elected lead and co lead) in the team must co-sign a data changing action. It's peer to peer, meaning those peers can find each other and co-sign this without our servers having to store any transaction queue that could be compromised.

This way we prevent abuse, and if the feds come knocking on our doors, our users stay protected because without those keys we cannot see what's going on in any of the registered teams.

That's how I think it should be like, for any web service that supposedly keeps their privacy promises. If they don't do this, their promises were likely lies and once the root keys or the databases are compromised there's no turning back.

Looking at you, cross-tenant keys at Azure. Everyone knows you were and are still lying about the security aspects.

Re: Find My Device on Android

#279

Post by prmoustache »

wolverine876 wrote: post #42

Can anyone recommend a similar device small enough for eyeglasses? An elderly person I know loses theirs (and it's a significant problem; they are very limited without them, on top of other difficulties of aging). I can find their phone for them remotely, but not their eyeglasses.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=glasses+cord&iax=images&ia=...

Re: Find My Device on Android

#280

Post by extraduder_ire »

md_ wrote: post #276
ranguna wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your phone doesn't have internet access > simply based on a BLE ping What if they disable Bluetooth? The linked open source find my device app uses cell network to both receive commands and for location.

On Apple's devices, you cannot disable that BLE broadcast. The same is true on the Pixel 8: https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/8/24123909/google-pixel-8-pr... . That's the whole point of this design, and fundamentally different than just having some app ping a server once in a while so long as it has network access.

Even if you turn on airplane mode on the device?
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