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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#921

Post by usr1106 »

kilpikaarna wrote: post #845
usr1106 wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland has been a very poor country after WW II until the 1970s (compared to Sweden who had no war or Germany who lost the war). An economy best compared to Portugal or Greece. The was a first overheating boom in the end of the 1980s, until a heavy recession took over in the 1990s. The next boom was Nokia driven in the 2000s until the global banking crisis. Since Nokia has fallen (well, it still exists but with a di…

This is basically it, with the addition that Finland is no lomger in control of its own money. From the war up until adopting the Euro, Finland would devalue its currency a little over once a decade to keep commodity exports going. The EMU is a mechanism effectively set up to extract wealth from the european periphery, for the benefit of Germany (and maybe to a lesser extent Framce). Finland is very much on the losin…

> From the war up until adopting the Euro, Finland would devalue its currency a little over once a decade to keep commodity exports going.

True. When Finland dropped 2 digits from its currency in the 60s the Finnish Mark and the German Mark where roughly 1:1. When the Euro was introduced 40 years later the exchange rate was 3:1. So 200% inflation over the years more than Germany which was far from stable either. So Finland was a high inflation country all the time.

I don't think high inflation countries are known for good economy. Finland for example had massive emigration. I don't think by having continued the high inflation route after 2000 the situation would be significantly brighter today.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#922

Post by usr1106 »

askonomm wrote: post #747
GrumpySloth wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by that? Did Finland change location over time? Also, two Eastern European countries that I have first-hand knowledge of: Poland and Estonia are much more digitised and efficient at those things than Germany (and, from what GP wrote, it seems Finland as well?).

I don't know why does everyone on HN think that Estonia is Eastern Europe when it is actually Northern Europe ( https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe ). All of the Baltic countries are Northern.

East and West used to be be not only a geographical distinction, but also political one.

Estonia belonged to the East, even though not voluntarily.

They actively left the Eastern block when they had the chance (like most of the others, so the block is no block anymore), but the terminology lives on, especially used by people who did not suffer from it.

A couple of years I went to a technical event. The event T-shirts were red. Someone from an "Eastern" country felt very negative about that: "We had communism, I will never wear a red T-shirt."

Those in the "West" who don't have the history of suffering don't have any strong feelings about those old things. Many of those who suffered (either personally or at least in stories from their parents) can be rather sensitive about such "mistakes".

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#923

Post by usr1106 »

shiroiushi wrote: post #604
usr1106 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Japan the industrialized nation with the lowest fraction of foreigners?

AFAICT, Japan has the easiest immigration for skilled professionals, by far. However, this has been the case for less than 10 years, as they totally revamped their immigration laws in the 2010s sometime to try to attract more such people, so of course it's going to take time to see the difference. Japan is also somewhat difficult for foreigners to live in because of the language barrier, but Germany isn't that differ…

> it's nothing like Netherlands where everyone and their dog speaks perfect English. In Germany, the college-educated people generally speak it quite well, everyone else, you're lucky if they know any at all, and it seems like you won't do well living there if you can't speak the language.

There are 2 kinds of countries in Europe:

- Those where movies and TV shows are dubbed: Germany, France etc. Especially the older generations and working class don't speak English too well

- Those where movies are English with subtitles: Many of the smaller countries with their own native language. So everybody is exposed to English all the time and many speak English pretty well.

(Have not watched movies in the Netherlands, but I could guess many are not dubbed?)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#924

Post by [deleted] »

fransje26 wrote: post #562
data_maan wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collectiveness? I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on. It's not going to happen. Social cohesion is very low, and Germany failed to foster a sense of shared values among immigrants.

> I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on. Wait, isn't that what's happening already? I'm pretty sure the temporary worker from the Czech Republic is there, as is the second generation Turk voting for Erdogan. Not fully sure about the Nigerian immig…

[deleted]

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#925

Post by pezezin »

samus wrote: post #634
data_maan wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't mix cash with digitization. Japan is even more cash.bases than Germany, yet I'd say more advanced in terms of digitization.

Aren't they still faxing documents all over the place? (AFAIK, you might have to do that from time to time in Germany as well)

They are, and they still rely on hankos (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)#Japanese_usag...). There has been a recent push for "digital transformation", but it is still in the early stages.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#926

Post by nanmu42 »

SeanLuke wrote: post #789
underdeserver wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why didn't you just get legally married in the US (and have a faux celebration in her home town)?

You've not dated an Italian, have you. :-)

Please indulge us and say more! :D

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#927

Post by onnimonni »

novaRom wrote: post #536
onnimonni wrote: post #211

Thanks for the great blog post. I'm very happy to be living and building business in Estonia instead. Establishing the company is easy and everything else except KYC meeting in bank can be done online. Also in Estonia companies don't pay any taxes on yearly profits. Almost all of the government officials speak fluent English except in the case where I wanted to have company owned car. Would highly recommend this opti…

Why relocation is needed? Can a EU citizen open a business in Estonia?

They certainly can. I think even people outside of EU can open companies in Estonia.

The problem is that you need to pay taxes in the country where the work was physically done. So if you have Estonian company while living in Germany typically the same taxes need to be filed and paid compared to having a GmbH in Germany. Plus you need to also do the taxes in Estonia as well so you would end up having double bureaucracy instead.

You can read about tax agreements between your country of residence and estonia to find out more. I'm not a lawyer and this is simplification and Can even be wrong but it's the best understanding I have so far.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#928

Post by shiroiushi »

orthoxerox wrote: post #465
tazjin wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best I'd say is a sense of collectiveness that is somewhat higher than other countries. I wouldn't say that this comes anywhere close to many other countries in Germany. Societal coherence in e.g. Russia or Norway is much higher than in Germany. I think it's rather the other way around: The countries you're comparing to might be exceptionally bad at it, and Germany is average.

> Societal coherence in e.g. Russia or Norway Russia (with the exception of its ethnic minorities) is one of the most atomized societies in Europe, actually. The Russian dream is a house in the exurbs with a three-meter-tall impenetrable fence around the lot where you can do anything you want inside and no one will bother you.

That sounds exactly like the US.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#929

Post by nicbou »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #902
nicbou wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, bureaucrats can act as gatekeepers for things that you are legally entitled to, and create various bureaucratic hurdles. It's usually mere thoroughness, sometimes incompetence, and if you cross them, vindictiveness. I was told more than once by very knowledgeable people that if you anger a case worker, they can and will make your life hard by nitpicking every little detail and asking for as many documents as the…

This is so true . There is a word for it in German… behördenwillkür. Mean they can do with you as they please. Advocate insurance is a must here. I hate the bureaucracy here. Lawyers are the only help

Legal insurance does not cover immigration a lot of the time

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#930

Post by shiroiushi »

dash2 wrote: post #817
shiroiushi wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT, Japan has the easiest immigration for skilled professionals, by far. However, this has been the case for less than 10 years, as they totally revamped their immigration laws in the 2010s sometime to try to attract more such people, so of course it's going to take time to see the difference. Japan is also somewhat difficult for foreigners to live in because of the language barrier, but Germany isn't that differ…

My experience in East Germany was that even waiters spoke pretty decent English and would switch to it at any opportunity. Not quite Holland, but not far off. I had a friend who had lived there 10 years and still didn't speak German.

I think that's an eastern Europe vs western Europe issue. In my experience as a tourist in both, people in eastern European countries (like Czechia and also Hungary) had much better English skills than people in (mainly former West) Germany. Even since the fall of the wall, eastern Europeans seem to have eagerly learned western ways and that includes English, whereas western Germans were already western, but didn't need to know English for that. East Germany is still quite different from west Germany (except Berlin, which is unique).
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