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Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

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Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#51

Post by devsda »

Atreiden wrote: post #34

[flagged]

> she is cast as a villain ("Ice Queen") and relegated to a footnote in history.

The company failed for multiple reasons and some of those were a result of sexism. So, I wouldn't say it was the sole cause for their decline.

> She told Harp that one man had complained to her about “the awful bitch who was running the company."

While Jobs and to some extent Gates were called eccentric geniuses for all their misdeeds in their early years, I have no doubts on what Harp & Ely would be called if they attempted to do even half of the bad things Jobs and Gates did.

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#52

Post by jbellis »

Atreiden wrote: post #34

[flagged]

I couldn't tell you the names of the founders of contemporary PC builders like North Star or Cromemco, either. But that's just because none of them lasted more than a decade or so.

Even the founders of Commodore, which was 10x more successful, are not household names.

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#53

Post by blashyrk »

Atreiden wrote: post #50
blashyrk wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Her company, and it's legacy, ultimately destroyed by men > A portrait of the insidious nature of sexism. A tad ironic to make these two statements in succession don't you think? I'm not saying that sexism doesn't or didn't exist (especially in that time period), but trying to dismiss the discrepancy on Wikipedia as sexism, when Jobs helped build a literal worldwide business empire that is Apple of today, doesn't h…

>A tad ironic to make these two statements in succession don't you think? Where's the irony? You'll have to point it out to me. > As a result, Harp McGovern had the opportunity to see, sooner than most other companies, what Microsoft was adding to its own operating system in an effort to capture the market. > It was a switch that Harp McGovern herself was inclined to make, so she contacted Gates and negotiated a prov…

> Where's the irony? You'll have to point it out to me.

> The deal was taken to the board, but the collective decision was made that it was better to stick with the known quantity that was CP/M for the in-development Vector 4.

Because, if you find it relevant what the sex of the board members that made that mistake was, how is that any better than the alleged sexism that McGovern had endured? If you think that, you must also think that a board consisting mainly (or fully) of women that makes some mistake has to do with them being women, right?

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#54

Post by garius »

laurex wrote: post #49

It’s not just that she overcame odds as a woman in the tech business that amazes, but that she was so clearly someone who cared about people, and chose to risk her business and reputation more than once to stay true to her values. That’s perhaps even more rare in this industry than being a successful female CEO.

Something I didn't have space to mention in the piece was that during the recession of the early eighties, Vector went out of their way to support their dealer network.

They offered loans and let dealers delay payments on deliveries to get them through the tough times.

It arguably cost them ground against IBM because it squeezed them further financially. But it was also another reason the Dealer network remained fiercely loyal to Vector - especially under Harp.

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#56

Post by ThomPete »

laurex wrote: post #49

It’s not just that she overcame odds as a woman in the tech business that amazes, but that she was so clearly someone who cared about people, and chose to risk her business and reputation more than once to stay true to her values. That’s perhaps even more rare in this industry than being a successful female CEO.

there are no odds as a woman in the tech business. The tech industry is on of the most inclusive industries because it measures talent and value creation not features no one can do anything about

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#57

Post by toolz »

I do believe there are unique challenges to being a woman in tech, but the odds seem in favor of women doing well both back in the 70's and today with todays stats having roughly 20% of CS grads being female while some 23% of SWEs are female. That suggests there are more women in software jobs than women who have been pursing that career academically. What stats do you see that suggest the odds are against women in tech? I frequently recommend tech as a good field for young girls, but I'll probably not do that anymore if the odds are truly against them.

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#58

Post by leononame »

toolz wrote: post #57

I do believe there are unique challenges to being a woman in tech, but the odds seem in favor of women doing well both back in the 70's and today with todays stats having roughly 20% of CS grads being female while some 23% of SWEs are female. That suggests there are more women in software jobs than women who have been pursing that career academically. What stats do you see that suggest the odds are against women in t…

How ist 20%/23% good? Am I reading the numbers wrong? 40%, that I could agree on. But 23% is very low.

Another thing is culture. The in the company's where I've worked at, how the men talked about women was pretty off-putting to be honest. They didn't do it in front of women (obviously), but even your nerdy developers would drop comments that had me wondering whether I was really in the ckrrect field. I'm sure the women in those places notice that even if it's behind their backs.

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#59

Post by worik »

ThomPete wrote: post #56
laurex wrote: post #49

It’s not just that she overcame odds as a woman in the tech business that amazes, but that she was so clearly someone who cared about people, and chose to risk her business and reputation more than once to stay true to her values. That’s perhaps even more rare in this industry than being a successful female CEO.

there are no odds as a woman in the tech business. The tech industry is on of the most inclusive industries because it measures talent and value creation not features no one can do anything about

> tech industry is on of the most inclusive industries because it...

Where have you been?

That ignoring history

Re: Lore Harp McGovern built a microcomputer empire from her suburban home

#60

Post by Atreiden »

blashyrk wrote: post #53
Atreiden wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A tad ironic to make these two statements in succession don't you think? Where's the irony? You'll have to point it out to me. > As a result, Harp McGovern had the opportunity to see, sooner than most other companies, what Microsoft was adding to its own operating system in an effort to capture the market. > It was a switch that Harp McGovern herself was inclined to make, so she contacted Gates and negotiated a prov…

> Where's the irony? You'll have to point it out to me. > The deal was taken to the board, but the collective decision was made that it was better to stick with the known quantity that was CP/M for the in-development Vector 4. Because, if you find it relevant what the sex of the board members that made that mistake was, how is that any better than the alleged sexism that McGovern had endured? If you think that, you m…

> Because, if you find it relevant what the sex of the board members that made that mistake was, how is that any better than the alleged sexism that McGovern had endured?

You've done some subtle editorializing here to try and make your point stronger, allow me to correct it:

> ultimately destroyed by men

is not what I wrote, what I wrote is

> ultimately destroyed by the men who overrode her decisions and opted to take the 'safer' route.

They convey two very different ideas. The strawman that you wrote implies that I believe men, by virtue of their sex, are responsible for the companies failure. This is not the case.

What I wrote implies that the board rejected her proposal because they thought they know better. Is it conceivable to you that this belief might have had something to do with the fact that she was a female CEO, formerly a housewife, in an exclusively male industry?

Surely you can concede that identifying sexist behavior and committing sexist behavior are not equivalent.

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