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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#801

Post by allarm »

shiroiushi wrote: post #605
jamil7 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you gone through the process? The system wasn’t “designed” at all, it’s completely broken and chaotic. It is 100% the fault of this system and not that of the immigrants going through it. Some of the people involved can also be extremely unpleasant to deal with, even if you speak German.

>Some of the people involved can also be extremely unpleasant to deal with, even if you speak German. Isn't this just German culture, though? I had that experience just buying groceries and going through the checkout line!

Absolutely not. I've lived in 2 cities in Germany for 2 years and Germans are the nicest people I've ever met. That's my second immigration and I travel a lot, so I can compare.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#802

Post by avar »

amaccuish wrote: post #738
OtherShrezzing wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fully understand the comment you've made. Why do you believe it to be bonkers or a scam to allow no-capital limited liability firms? It effectively puts the entire country into a position where unless a citizen is born relatively wealthy, they have to perform labour for someone else for several years while they save up enough to start their own business. Who does the system benefit? What is it preventing? Why…

Am lost. I started a business here in Germany as a Kleinunternehmer, cost me 30 EUR. GmbH is not the only form available.

This thread is discussing limited-liability companies. You're personally liable for that Kleinunternehmer, in Germany your only option is a GmbH.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#803

Post by ben_w »

constantcrying wrote: post #769
ben_w wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person's Schwachsinn is another's Vernunft. I've never actually looked at the German budget (quasi B1 deutschkenntnisse and no training in economics, what would I get from reading them?), what I can say is that it's very easy to fall into the trap described by Chesterton's fence and call for the removal of things because you don't understand them, not because they're actually bad. For example, someone I used to k…

The data is published in English as well. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Home/_node.html >For example, someone I used to know in the UK said much the same about his taxes paying for schools, just because he personally didn't have kids. This isn't what I said. If I pay half of my wages to the state I would expect them to manage to staff government offices. Maybe besides defense, basic administration has to be the most imp…

> The data is published in English as well. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Home/_node.html

Dankeschön.

If I'm reading this right (I may not be, see previous comment: I am not an economist), half of the revenue is spend on social security: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Government/Public-Finance/...

This is weirdly out of date, I don't know why the link was to a URL from 2013 whose content is about 2017, but it says for that year, 57% was social security: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Government/Public-Finance/...

> This isn't what I said.

Indeed, it was an example of the category alone, and not even intended to imply you have that specific detailed opinion.

Thing is, the stuff I linked to are all vague large-scale groupings, and I can't dig into any of them and say "Max Mustermann from the… *rolls dice* cultural affairs department, is spending too much on… *rolls dice* trying to promote Sendung mit der Maus to… *rolls dice* the Swiss" — and even if I could dig in at that level, I wouldn't be able to comprehend the value, only the cost.

(Würde jemand sagen, "von allem den Preis, von nichts den Wert", oder ist das nur die Uberzetsung des Oscar Wild Zitat?)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#804

Post by Aerroon »

intended wrote: post #705
Aerroon wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But maybe those experts should've been raising alarm over this? Western Europe is doing pretty poorly when it comes to economic growth. And prior to that Germany got a lot of help from the US, Spain did not do well, Italy was questionable, Portugal did not do well. Netherlands did well, but a lot of it is down to their location as a place for trade. That only leaves France and Belgium. Did they do well? > We've been…

Based on what data ? I checked and I can't see these claims being supported. I could be wrong but and may have misunderstood something.

How well the countries are doing? Nominal GDP/capita has been relatively stagnant in most of western Europe:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?location...

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#805

Post by rurban »

This is only about founding a GmbH. Only to avoid high liabilities. ("beschraenkte Haftung")

A normal simple Einzelunternehmen is trivial. I needed about 2h just to avoid the trap of the Gewerbesteuerpflicht (tip: system software counts as freies gewerbe, application software development not!), went to the "Steuerbehoerde" (local tax office) and that was it. No "buchhalter", just Online Elster 4x a year for the USt, and 1x a year for the ESt. Same as in the US or every other state. I did that in 3 countries so far. The US was easiest.

An engineering office is more complicated because of additional mandatory expensive IHK insurances and membership fees. TKK (Techniker Krankenkasse) is always better

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#806

Post by throwaway220033 »

mrks_hy wrote: post #758
throwaway220033 wrote: post #456

Germany is a cult, not country. The whole system is designed for slavery. Never question anything here, just obey the rules, give up your individuality and live without a soul. The new European way of freedom is not building your own life; you must let government take care of you, and in return you do what they ask. The best part is they think they are free and afraid of their privacy. If freedom is not thinking for…

Your post is one big "citation needed". You come across as quite bitter.

The Mölln arson attack: 3 Turks were killed, including two children The Solingen arson attack: A Turkish family were killed, three children and 2 women NSU Murders: 10 Turkish small business owners were murdered Hanau Attacks: 9 people were killed by far-right terrorist March 2024 Solingen attack: A Turkish-Bulgarian family was murdered by arson attack.

2021 Report by Turkish Foreigners Community: https://nfrt.blob.core.windows.net/nefretsuclari/PageModule/...

Only in 2021 there were 300+ attacks recorded towards Turkish people.

You have no clue how many unrecorded attacks have been carried out Turkish people in day to day life in Germany.

The truth is so obvious and EVERYONE ignores it. If you ask white Germans why they organize large protests for George Floyd and virtue-signal how liberal they were and yet they never raised their voice for all these murders and violence, you'll reach the racism in their heart.

The difference is that Turks do not accept the victim status and take measures in their own to protect themselves.

They even formed a gang just to protect themselves from skinheads:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36_Boys

Any more citation you need? Do you need help digesting the truth?

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#807

Post by _t9ow »

mdekkers wrote: post #385

I founded a business in Germany, and the tax departments decided to asses me for 2024 to an amount of 100% of my combined 2020-2022 turnover. Instopped trading halfway through 2023, abd there will be no turnover for 2024. I currently have a tax “debt” that is literally more money than the business ever _collected_ over it’s entire existence. It is nearly impossible to find a tax lawyer that is willing to take on the…

As someone who's also been the subject of harassment and terrorism by the tax authorities in another EU country, your comment gave me Vietnam War flashbacks.

Hang in there. The only way out is through.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#808

Post by stoltzmann »

CalRobert wrote: post #709
com wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I’ve never had to show ID at Dutch hospitals or clinics. My GP does the referral (!!! great GP!!!) or I turn up at A&E and the (medical) intake has begun. I speak Dutch though, maybe that makes a difference? Edit:spelling and clarification on intake

tergooi MC in Hilversum has no one to talk to when you walk in, really. You get a ticket with your Dutch id, wait where it tells you, and someone calls your name. It's really efficient if you have Dutch id!

At least when I was there last year, if you head left from the entrance there's a couple booths there. Usually at least one is staffed.

Also if I remember at Tergooi MC you needed to register in their system anyways before an appointment. In the past they issued a little plastic card at the very same booth.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#809

Post by amaccuish »

avar wrote: post #802
amaccuish wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am lost. I started a business here in Germany as a Kleinunternehmer, cost me 30 EUR. GmbH is not the only form available.

This thread is discussing limited-liability companies. You're personally liable for that Kleinunternehmer, in Germany your only option is a GmbH.

I'm responding to the parent "It effectively puts the entire country into a position where unless a citizen is born relatively wealthy..."

Sure the thread is about limited-liability, but parent argues as if non-wealthy people can't form businesses, which is not true.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#810

Post by allarm »

tietjens wrote: post #712
smarnach wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's vastly overstating how bad it is. Maybe it's different if you are a German citizen. Just as an example, I never did anything other than signing the contract to get a job. I filled in a single form for each of my two kids when they were born. We got the forms in the hospital and just left them there. Similarly for registering a car -- there was a single simple form.

I disagree. This is not in any way overstating the state of things. Have you ever changed cities and needed to change Finanzbehörde? Have you ever registered for driving school? Have you ever tried changing from one driving instructor to another? Have you ever got married in a district where there are no appointments for marriage? Have you ever been unable to take your children out of school to attend a family funera…

> Have you ever registered for driving school?

What's so difficult about that? That was 10 minutes long process for me. I changed cities so I had to change the driving school as well and there were no issues at all.

> Have you ever tried changing from one driving instructor to another?

I haven't but my school encourages people to do that if they find that they don't click with their instructor.

Not arguing with the rest though.

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