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C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

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Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#61

Post by CyberDildonics »

mgaunard wrote: post #60
CyberDildonics wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debug/sanitized builds are for unit tests. What about just compiling and running your program after you make a change or get a crash? Crashes in production happen with optimized builds. You need to be able to inspect the core and figure out what happened from there, as usually you can't reproduce the scenario. Right... What's your point? This scenario doesn't overlap with regular iterations. Normal workflow and a cra…

The crash when your program is distributed is the normal workflow. What matters is that your program runs flawlessly in its distributed environment, not that your test suite passes locally. Testing is but a proxy to achieve the true goal, and is far from perfect.

Your normal workflow is only finding bugs once you've released your program to other people? You don't find any bugs while you work on it? You write a program and if it compiles you immediately assume everything is fine, release it and wait for someone to complain?

Do you realize that this thread was about someone saying that debug builds are a legacy holdover from the 80s ?

Testing is but a proxy to achieve the true goal, and is far from perfect.

What is this supposed to mean?

Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#62

Post by mgaunard »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #61
mgaunard wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crash when your program is distributed is the normal workflow. What matters is that your program runs flawlessly in its distributed environment, not that your test suite passes locally. Testing is but a proxy to achieve the true goal, and is far from perfect.

Your normal workflow is only finding bugs once you've released your program to other people? You don't find any bugs while you work on it? You write a program and if it compiles you immediately assume everything is fine, release it and wait for someone to complain? Do you realize that this thread was about someone saying that debug builds are a legacy holdover from the 80s ? Testing is but a proxy to achieve the true…

The bugs you find while working on something are trivial ones; the hard bugs come from integration with other components.

Additionally most software runs as a service this day, so you have fast deployment iterations to collect errors.

Even for something like games, they get OTA updates all the time, fixing bugs that were only found while people were playing the game.

> What is this supposed to mean?

This is a pretty simple sentence in straightforward English. Which word do you have a problem with?

Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#63

Post by CyberDildonics »

mgaunard wrote: post #62
CyberDildonics wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your normal workflow is only finding bugs once you've released your program to other people? You don't find any bugs while you work on it? You write a program and if it compiles you immediately assume everything is fine, release it and wait for someone to complain? Do you realize that this thread was about someone saying that debug builds are a legacy holdover from the 80s ? Testing is but a proxy to achieve the true…

The bugs you find while working on something are trivial ones; the hard bugs come from integration with other components. Additionally most software runs as a service this day, so you have fast deployment iterations to collect errors. Even for something like games, they get OTA updates all the time, fixing bugs that were only found while people were playing the game. > What is this supposed to mean? This is a pretty…

What is it exactly that you think you're replying to? All this was about was someone thinking there was no use for debug builds. You're hallucinating some sort of discussion or argument about distributed software, services, updates, none of it is even coherent to what is being talked about.

Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#64

Post by mgaunard »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #63
mgaunard wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bugs you find while working on something are trivial ones; the hard bugs come from integration with other components. Additionally most software runs as a service this day, so you have fast deployment iterations to collect errors. Even for something like games, they get OTA updates all the time, fixing bugs that were only found while people were playing the game. > What is this supposed to mean? This is a pretty…

What is it exactly that you think you're replying to? All this was about was someone thinking there was no use for debug builds. You're hallucinating some sort of discussion or argument about distributed software, services, updates, none of it is even coherent to what is being talked about.

The parent of the thread is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39950725

It argues that you shouldn't debug optimized builds.

Obviously, as I pointed out, a real programmer needs to be able to debug optimized builds.

Maybe you should be the one tracking what you're replying to.

Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#65

Post by CyberDildonics »

mgaunard wrote: post #64
CyberDildonics wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it exactly that you think you're replying to? All this was about was someone thinking there was no use for debug builds. You're hallucinating some sort of discussion or argument about distributed software, services, updates, none of it is even coherent to what is being talked about.

The parent of the thread is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39950725 It argues that you shouldn't debug optimized builds. Obviously, as I pointed out, a real programmer needs to be able to debug optimized builds. Maybe you should be the one tracking what you're replying to.

Did you get mixed up and think that people saying that debug builds are crucial for iterations means that they were saying no one ever needs to debug an optimized build?

Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#66

Post by rymiel »

johnea wrote: post #2

I wonder how helpful it is for g++? Myself and my ancient h/w and s/w engineering friends have been having a discussion recently about how the modern C++ language features are generating code that is not readily debugged at the source level. The compiler has always created assembly that implements the feature described by teh high level language, but histoirically these have had a relatively one-to-one relationship w…

gcc lacks usable tooling, in the past it was a conscious decision to not allow any other program to "steal" the work of gcc. Every single tool for c++ is built around clang, because clang is actually built to allow other tools to use it

Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#68

Post by shrimp_emoji »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #65
mgaunard wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent of the thread is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39950725 It argues that you shouldn't debug optimized builds. Obviously, as I pointed out, a real programmer needs to be able to debug optimized builds. Maybe you should be the one tracking what you're replying to.

Did you get mixed up and think that people saying that debug builds are crucial for iterations means that they were saying no one ever needs to debug an optimized build?

I will not let you get the last word in this one, CD.

Re: C++ Insights – See your source code with the eyes of a compiler

#69

Post by CyberDildonics »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #68
CyberDildonics wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get mixed up and think that people saying that debug builds are crucial for iterations means that they were saying no one ever needs to debug an optimized build?

I will not let you get the last word in this one, CD.

Why not?
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