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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#751

Post by Tainnor »

mdekkers wrote: post #388
Tainnor wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people have already written this, but Berlin is not a good representation for Germany as a whole. It has been known for decades within Germany for having a dysfunctional government structure and administration (due in part to unclear division of responsibilities between districts and the city). Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. The neglicence of the state of Berlin is actuall…

> Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. Data to back up your assertion that it’s only Berlin? I can speak for Düsseldorf, which is a total nightmare. Literally everything folks talk about regarding issues in Berlin also happens as a matter of course in Düsseldorf. A friend of mine is high up in the NRW civil servants apparatus and he confirms it’s fucked across the board in NRW.

Like everyone else here, I don't have any data (I searched, but couldn't find anything), only anecdotes - my own experiences from living in Cologne and Berlin, and those of friends who live in Hamburg, Frankfurt, Munich, etc.

There are issues everywhere but Berlin is particularly bad. We weren't even able to hold a regular election without messing it up.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#752

Post by thaumasiotes »

SeanLuke wrote: post #735

For those of you griping about German bureaucracy I urge you to come to Italy to learn just how good you have it. My wife is Italian and wanted to get married in her small home town. In order for her to get married to an American in her home town required paperwork that bordered on the Kafkaesque. We had to show up at the Italian embassy in Washington DC (fortunately we live there!) with proof and witnesses that I wa…

> and then even though I wrote the vows myself in Italian, just because I am American we had to have it translated by someone else back into English, by hand, just so I understood the vows I had myself written.

Are you a native Italian speaker? If not, this makes perfect sense. It is routine for someone to attempt to say one thing in a foreign language while actually saying something completely different.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#753

Post by treprinum »

askonomm wrote: post #747
GrumpySloth wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by that? Did Finland change location over time? Also, two Eastern European countries that I have first-hand knowledge of: Poland and Estonia are much more digitised and efficient at those things than Germany (and, from what GP wrote, it seems Finland as well?).

I don't know why does everyone on HN think that Estonia is Eastern Europe when it is actually Northern Europe ( https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe ). All of the Baltic countries are Northern.

It's the same as Czechia, Poland, Slovakia and Hungary being Eastern European when they are Central European. Soviet legacy, west vs east.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#754

Post by willcipriano »

SeanLuke wrote: post #735

For those of you griping about German bureaucracy I urge you to come to Italy to learn just how good you have it. My wife is Italian and wanted to get married in her small home town. In order for her to get married to an American in her home town required paperwork that bordered on the Kafkaesque. We had to show up at the Italian embassy in Washington DC (fortunately we live there!) with proof and witnesses that I wa…

The US portion of that is the same if you get married in Greece. I'd guess it's the same everywhere.

Had to get my Greek marriage documents translated as well.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#755

Post by croes »

vereinbar wrote: post #739
croes wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never trust a conservative think tank on taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation >Payroll taxes are typically flat-rate taxes levied on wages and are in addition to the taxes on income. In most OECD countries, both the employer and the employee pay payroll taxes. These taxes usually fund specific social programs, such as unemployment insurance, health insurance, and old age insurance. Social security and…

The Tax Foundation simply presents the data collected by the OECD[1]. You don't have to trust them. >Social security and pesnions aren't financed by taxes, in Germany taxes are not earmarked for a specific purpose. This is wrong. Because the pension contributions are not enough to cover the payments, every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions. The German pension system is effectively bankrol…

> Because the pension contributions are not enough to cover the payments, every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions.

Because the pension contributions are used for non-insurance benefits that should actually be paid for by all taxpayers, such as the mothers' pension or the equalization of pensions for retirees in East and West Germany.

BTW "every year billions from the tax revenue is used to pay the pensions" proves social security and pension contributions aren't taxes. Tax money is a subsidy not the main source.

>This is also wrong.

That part is totally missing my point. It's about the ranking. Without public social security the ranking would be better but worse for the workers and just because it's a tax in Autralia you can't simply count it as a tax in Germany.

If you want to compare you need the total costs of living not the tax burden. Tax burden is just leverage to help companies and harm workers.

Replace taxes by fees and the tax foundation is happy, the people not so much.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#756

Post by caseysoftware »

That's nuts. I created a pair of LLCs in Texas in '22 and the registration process was $300 (each), submitting one form, and saving the resulting pdf.

Starting their bank accounts was another matter though as they wanted the pdf from above and Articles of Incorporation and/or an Operating Agreement, neither of which was required by the state. But the document itself wasn't important as my banker googled to find a one-page version, emailed me the link, I filled in my details, and printed it. :|

Now once a year, I have to go online and report my annual revenue. And because I fall under the minimum, the rate is 0% unless I file it late, then it's a $50 late fee.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#757

Post by Semaphor »

jamil7 wrote: post #746
Semaphor wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not myself, but I accompanied my wife every time, and she’s now a permanent resident. The last time we just wanted to extend her temporary residence permit, they even advised us that we have no reason to do that and could just apply for permanent residence (which we then did). Waiting times are annoying, but that is because of an overloaded system, everything else was pretty painless.

I'm glad it was straightforward for you. I've gone for a number of temporary visas and had mixed experiences. I was in a very similar situation on my last visit and was, like your wife recommended to go straight for permanent residency, which ended up being a 6 month process with multiple visits and dealing with about 4-5 different people. This was all happening during the immigration reforms so that might have been…

Ouch, that sounds painful. Permanent residency took 1.5 months and only required one more visit once everything was done.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#758

Post by mrks_hy »

throwaway220033 wrote: post #456

Germany is a cult, not country. The whole system is designed for slavery. Never question anything here, just obey the rules, give up your individuality and live without a soul. The new European way of freedom is not building your own life; you must let government take care of you, and in return you do what they ask. The best part is they think they are free and afraid of their privacy. If freedom is not thinking for…

Your post is one big "citation needed". You come across as quite bitter.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#759

Post by croes »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #677
croes wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never trust a conservative think tank on taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation >Payroll taxes are typically flat-rate taxes levied on wages and are in addition to the taxes on income. In most OECD countries, both the employer and the employee pay payroll taxes. These taxes usually fund specific social programs, such as unemployment insurance, health insurance, and old age insurance. Social security and…

Sooo is statisa [1] also a conservative think tank? I don't see anything wrong with the quote you provided. > Social security and pesnions aren't financed by taxes, in Germany taxes are not earmarked for a specific purpose. Not sure I can follow. Of course the pensions and social security are quite substantially tax funded [2]. [1] https://de.statista.com/infografik/13660/oecd-vergleich-steu... [2] https://www.ihre-v…

They used the pension money for other things so it's logical to pay it back. And just because tax money is used for pensions doesn't mean the socuial security and pension contributions are tax burden.

Like I said, if all social security was through private insurance the tax burden would be lower but the people wouldn't have more money.

Health insurance proved otherwise. As long as you are healthy you pay less but as soon you get sick more often it gets way more expensive.

But the later wouldn't be recognized as tax burden.

Tax burden itself is a useless measure, the total cost of living is better.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#760

Post by samtuke »

nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

I got married in Denmark for this reason. Super easy. Costs plenty. Smart economic strategy.
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