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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

eidel.io

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. I have been living here for 8 years, and recently applied for a permanent settlement permit. My application went into a blackhole for more than 4 months, while my existing permit expired, essentially making me a prisoner here (I can stay and work in Germany but if I travel internationally, I won't be allowed entry back). Meanwhile, my applications for a temporary travel permit were unanswered for…

I went down to the local Ausländerbehörde in Berlin (a place where foreigners register with the state), having very very minimal German. I was promptly handed a form in German to fill out. More than slightly flustered and in a bit of rush to get it done, I put down "25" in a box that I thought was age, but in actuality was the number of times you were married. Never much helped my application that I think!

> I did not understand what I was doing, so I just did something random, and it did not work out for me.

Sounds like that one was largely on you…

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#592
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a USA perspective, I find that usually when a bureaucratic process is hopelessly broken, it is because a small portion of the population actively hates the people that would benefit from the process and want to harm them. However they cannot legally or popularly discriminate against them so instead they destroy the processes that benefit the hated group. Do you get that impression where you are too?

This perspective remains kinda crazy. Why do US people keep trying to route control of major parts of their life through a system where they believe people who "actively hates the people who would benefit from the process" have significant influence? People come up with this from time to time but the logical conclusion is small governments. It has been a few centuries now and there hasn't been any progress in improvi…

> Why do US people keep trying to route control of major parts of their life through a system where ..

Because sometimes you don't have a say, or you don't expect to use it. No politician ever campaigned on making the lines at the DMV move faster. But we (mostly) all agree you should be required to get a license before you drive. Most Americans drive, and few have chose to route this "major part of their life" away from the DMV.

Immigration process (as this thread illustrates) sucks. It's also not a process used by voters.

The process to apply for welfare in most parts of the US sucks, but the actual welfare is valuable. People think by making it harder, it will instead result in people who are less reliant upon it. Welfare recipients are a huge political target constantly. They're the individuals who are "actively hated" in this example, and they're entirely dependent on the system in that moment, because thats how misfortune works.

Many cities making construction permits hard to get, because local residents don't want their neighborhood changing, so they petition local politicians to make the process slower/harder/more-expensive. In this example they "hate" the new construction.

If you're not a high schooler and you're applying to a state-funded university, the process to prove you're a local resident can be surprisingly complicated. This is because it's designed for high school students and all the edge cases are optimized to avoid accidentally providing tax-subsidized "in-state" tuition to an out-of-state resident. For example, I wanted to take a for-fun class at a local university and because I didn't have a local high school to vouch for my residency, I needed to provide (among other things) 50+ pages of tax documents. It took 2 semesters (1y) to prove I lived in the state, and the minimum amount of time you need to live in-state is 1 year.

People who live their life in the "happy-path" case often don't deal with the government, and don't understand the struggle of these edge cases. Plenty of activities require the government. No way around it. Sometimes, people who think "small government" is the solution end up making those processes terrible by making it understaffed or convoluted to "avoid waste".

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The degradation comes from waves of austerity politics by right wing governments. These services are expensive and require staff to keep things going. Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend" and end up running more efficiently, rather than having a knock on effect and decr…

I often see comments like this, but what's a good solution to the ever expanding cost of public services (to the point most of western europe now has gov spending at 40%+ of gdp)? You do need to cut back if you're starting to run a significant deficit or more and more of your budget will go on interest payments. Any large org tends to get more inefficient with time as it accumulates inefficient components it can't ge…

> Any large org tends to get more inefficient with time as it accumulates inefficient components it can't get rid of

This is really the crux of it. Same incompetence and inefficiency, we see in tech industry. Are there any serious studies on the disease that comes with scale, and possibly its cure?

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with both German and Finnish bureaucracy. German bureaucracy is (in)famous for paperwork and using faxes. Citizens/residents have no unique identifier (more and more weakened recently) and need to present documentation for everything. If you have no paper birth certificate you are not born... Finland has had much higher digitalization for decades. You have a person number and authorities store everythin…

I suspect the degradation came from Eastern Europe, what you wrote is what I was told EE looked like in the 80-90s.

What do you mean by that? Did Finland change location over time?

Also, two Eastern European countries that I have first-hand knowledge of: Poland and Estonia are much more digitised and efficient at those things than Germany (and, from what GP wrote, it seems Finland as well?).

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a USA perspective, I find that usually when a bureaucratic process is hopelessly broken, it is because a small portion of the population actively hates the people that would benefit from the process and want to harm them. However they cannot legally or popularly discriminate against them so instead they destroy the processes that benefit the hated group. Do you get that impression where you are too?

As the other user said, this is just the conspiracy politcs obsessed partisan weirdos would like for you to believe. After all, if their side is so benevolent and immigrant loving, why haven't they pushed any genuine immigration system reforms instead of just creating a captive subclass in the form of illegal immigrants? For instance, if Republicans are really so hateful of certain minorities, why do they not properl…

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#596
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, there is competition. You are free to choose whichever notary you want. But pricing is legally regulated, so you will pay the same price everywhere.

The solution is easy: Create a small company to own the property. That company can be sold much more easily than the property itself. It also avoids the tax on propery purchase.

The property tax thing is actually not true. Not if the company only exists to hold properties. The tax office is not that stupid.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#597
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is easy: Create a small company to own the property. That company can be sold much more easily than the property itself. It also avoids the tax on propery purchase.

Companies have other issues like VAT/GST and reporting. I had a friend use a company in New Zealand and it cost him multiple % of property price due to an issue he didn't forsee. New Zealand doesn't have notiaries or special insurance but you do need to use a lawyer to transfer ownership and I think it costs about NZD1500 each for vendor and buyer.

Yes, for Germany you can expect at least around 5k/a in costs for accounting, audits etc.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying Germany is slow, but that is one area where US is far behind. 21 Months - This is the current processing time for a green card after you have sent in all the paperwork to the USCIS for processing. During that time, you get no updates and of-course if you leave the country without AP, your application is considered to be abandoned. https://imgur.com/a/t8rYOjv

It's the same in Australia; when you apply for permanent residency your application goes into a black hole. I wanted to learn more about my status and all I got back from the immigration people was 'the agent processing your application will contact you. We do not give out contact details for your agent. You will have to wait'. It took about 8 months. Once your 'regular' visa expires you go onto a bridging visa which…

Australia "what countries have you been to and when" is fun, if you have traveled a bit. I thought being to Tunisia during arab spring and China and Russia might be issues! Overall it was hours of paperwork. Wife's grandmothers maiden name kinda crap in there too IIRC. Upside is Citizenship was relatively easy after this (because you have done PR already). Just had to learn some stuff about what happens in Canberra :-).

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#599
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in Australia; when you apply for permanent residency your application goes into a black hole. I wanted to learn more about my status and all I got back from the immigration people was 'the agent processing your application will contact you. We do not give out contact details for your agent. You will have to wait'. It took about 8 months. Once your 'regular' visa expires you go onto a bridging visa which…

Japan immigration (if you have a college degree) seems to be pretty high up there. PR takes a while, and processing is a bit of a black hole, but generally speaking you apply, application extends your visa a bit, and they get back to you within the period. And it’s maybe $100? People complain but its generally predictable save for applications for a 3 year visa can lead to a 1 year visa or a 3 year visa or a 5 year v…

>And it’s maybe $100?

Even better, it's 8000 yen, which with the current exchange rate is about USD $60.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#600
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, there is competition. You are free to choose whichever notary you want. But pricing is legally regulated, so you will pay the same price everywhere.

The amount of notaries in Germany is very limited. . You can’t just study that and open a notary in Germany. They are cash cows that obviously don’t want competition. During Covid Germany was the only country of its neighbors that did not do remote attestations. From 2000 to 2020 the number of notaries in Germany had almost halved. How is that normal for any country ? Unless they replaced notaries with automation whi…

Almost halved = 30% less

https://www.juve.de/markt-und-management/notariate-immer-wen...

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