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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#561

Post by fransje26 »

lrem wrote: post #195
fleshmonad wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that I am a German. I would say there are few. Bad education, especially in schools, a broken railway and public transport system, as well as incredibly high taxes. You may say "free healthcare" and a point can be made here, but when you take a look at the high taxes you have to pay, it's not worth it, if your income is above average. All in all it's a mess and I haven't even begun speaking about German people a…

Looks like you really want to move to Switzerland :D

To then start complaining about the costs of living..?

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#562

Post by fransje26 »

data_maan wrote: post #449
chironjit wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best I'd say is a sense of collectiveness that is somewhat higher than other countries. It's not nationalism. Rather, there is some amount of willingness to give up personal comfort for some sort of general/societal greater good. This is really something I've noticed compared to say the UK, Australia, certain asian countries, etc. Not sure why it hasn't translated to improving bureaucracy.

Collectiveness? I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on. It's not going to happen. Social cohesion is very low, and Germany failed to foster a sense of shared values among immigrants.

> I can't wait for the new Nigerian immigrant to swing his beer at Octoberfest arm in arm with the second generation Turk from Munich, all while the waitress, a temporary worker from the Czech Republic, rushes on.

Wait, isn't that what's happening already? I'm pretty sure the temporary worker from the Czech Republic is there, as is the second generation Turk voting for Erdogan. Not fully sure about the Nigerian immigrant though.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#563

Post by miningape »

beAbU wrote: post #519
usr1106 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with both German and Finnish bureaucracy. German bureaucracy is (in)famous for paperwork and using faxes. Citizens/residents have no unique identifier (more and more weakened recently) and need to present documentation for everything. If you have no paper birth certificate you are not born... Finland has had much higher digitalization for decades. You have a person number and authorities store everythin…

For all it's many many faults, I have to say I'm sometimes surprised by how efficient some South African bureaucratic state organs function. To get a renewed passport is a 5 minute online form, electronic payment, and then a 30 minute appointment at a local bank branch to get biometrics taken. Then about 1-2 weeks later you can go and pick up your new passport. Driving license not much different. For most people, pay…

This is interesting because I have the exact opposite experience. I'm a South African but I live in the EU, for me, I need to book my new passport 1 year+ in advance of it expiring because it takes on average about that long (if I pay the bribes).

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#565

Post by rkachowski »

stavros wrote: post #537
mkesper wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please add a link for people relying on this info.

A link to what? Travel within the Schengen area is unrestricted, you can drive or fly to wherever you want and nobody will check passports.

This isn't true, this year I have been on a train from Marseille to Berlin and German police checked everyone on the train for passports at the border specifically to check residence validity - and removed one passenger with a residence permit as he attempted to reenter Germany (he was informed he was not initially permitted to leave)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#566

Post by vineyardmike »

emmelaich wrote: post #320
callalex wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a USA perspective, I find that usually when a bureaucratic process is hopelessly broken, it is because a small portion of the population actively hates the people that would benefit from the process and want to harm them. However they cannot legally or popularly discriminate against them so instead they destroy the processes that benefit the hated group. Do you get that impression where you are too?

I love this comment because it's such a Rorschach blot, to be read any way you want. To properly read this in your intended meaning, do we need to find the political and ethnic makeup of the immigration department? Or society at large?

(as a fellow American) They almost certainly meant this as "politicians, or their voters, have some bias/hate against something, so they destroy the bureaucracy that benefits those people".

Eg. Republicans hate taxes, so they defund the IRS (tax collectors), to make it harder for the government to audit tax evasion.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#567

Post by constantcrying »

nicbou wrote: post #114

I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…

As a German this never really happened to me. I even own a business here, not a GmBH though. Took one document to fill out about an hour of "work".

I really do not get these complaints at all. Even Taxes can be filled out easily with a pretty good online form. None of the bureaucracy ever happened to me, except it is annoying to book appointments. The only things that need addressing are the chronically understaffed government offices and the ridiculously high taxes which are constantly being wasted on utter nonsense.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#568

Post by Rinzler89 »

duggan wrote: post #500
amonavis wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this is a weird view of government services. I'm paying taxes to have a system serve me, and to have processes support my life not the other way around. Leaving all emotions out of the equation, the job of the jurisdiction under which I fall is so facilitate my legality so I can pursue a productive and enjoyable life. If I'm paying taxes and I'm expected to pitch in the governmental effort, then that's not wher…

You can deal with the world either how you wish it were, or how it is. The reality is that bureaucracies are full of humans – and we all know how humans are.

Everything is full of humans, but private companies with terrible processes workers would usually have consequences that demand some change. Government services have no competition sos they are exempt from consequences if they're terrible.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#569

Post by Beijinger »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #445
usr1106 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with both German and Finnish bureaucracy. German bureaucracy is (in)famous for paperwork and using faxes. Citizens/residents have no unique identifier (more and more weakened recently) and need to present documentation for everything. If you have no paper birth certificate you are not born... Finland has had much higher digitalization for decades. You have a person number and authorities store everythin…

IT in general is stuck in blind valley and doesn't make anything easier anymore with its aggressive outsourcing and profit extraction. The only systems which go quickly and efficiently are those against the interests of an average citizen - e.g. the covid certification apps determining and limiting basic citizen rights. Oftentimes I prefer to show up in person with ID and fetch a printout with confirmation, than to i…

Biggest problem: Germans don't understand digitization.

They often try to recreate the paper process with IT, instead of making a complete new setup.

Example:

Previously, you had to go to the City Hall or whatever in your pace of birth to get a birth certificate.

Now you can email them, pay, and they mail you the certificate via snail mail.

How it should be: Use an online token, log into your account, request a birth certificate and just print it. It should have a URL that can be used to verify that it is valid. This would be faster and the risk of forgery would be much lower. A seal - and Germans love seals, they wank of to seals - can be forged much easier.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#570

Post by stavros »

rkachowski wrote: post #565
stavros wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A link to what? Travel within the Schengen area is unrestricted, you can drive or fly to wherever you want and nobody will check passports.

This isn't true, this year I have been on a train from Marseille to Berlin and German police checked everyone on the train for passports at the border specifically to check residence validity - and removed one passenger with a residence permit as he attempted to reenter Germany (he was informed he was not initially permitted to leave)

Those are random spot checks, there's no border between France and Germany where everyone's passport will be checked.
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