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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#491

Post by croes »

n_ary wrote: post #431
croes wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incredibly high taxes? Denmark has higher taxes. And don't forget Germany has one of the lowest annual working hours in the world https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

> And don't forget Germany has one of the lowest annual working hours in the world Of course if you are a civil servant or part of some mega union, but for the rest of the private plebs it is often 9h daily(because lunch break is not part of contract) and most do a long commute(because of eternal housing crisis) which may raise it to 12-14h easily.

Same is valid in other countries. Germany isn't the capital of worker exploitation.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#492

Post by csomar »

freyfogle wrote: post #139
twixfel wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK but how is it that other countries get by without them for founding LLCs? Are there countless scams going on in the UK surrounding limited company for example since you don't need a notary there? There's often lots of post hoc justifications in Germany for "why it is that way" (and has to be that way). But nobody ever seems to stop and think: ok but the rest of the world seems to get by OK without these reams and…

I now have a German GmbH and had a UK Ltd in the past for 10 years. Definitely there is more seriousness/trustworthiness to a GmbH. I am not sure there are "countless" scams in the UK, but yes, in 10 years of commercial operation did come across a few oddities. Example - a customer (UK Ltd) who declared bankruptcy owing us a money and then then next day founded a new Ltd company and tried to act like he didn't owe us…

> Example - a customer (UK Ltd) who declared bankruptcy owing us a money and then then next day founded a new Ltd company and tried to act like he didn't owe us the money because it was a new entity.

Depends. This can be illegal and he is personally liable for the amount. That being said, he might have done things by the book and his previous venture is bankrupted.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#493

Post by nickpp »

4ad wrote: post #197

As an EU citizen, it's easier to open an LLC in the US, without even stepping a foot in the US than opening an LLC in the EU. The most depressing thing is that EU citizens don't even see any problem with that.

Entrepreneurs do, so the even more depressing thing is how low EU's entrepreneurship rate is.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#494

Post by lifestyleguru »

anewhnaccount2 wrote: post #471
usr1106 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with both German and Finnish bureaucracy. German bureaucracy is (in)famous for paperwork and using faxes. Citizens/residents have no unique identifier (more and more weakened recently) and need to present documentation for everything. If you have no paper birth certificate you are not born... Finland has had much higher digitalization for decades. You have a person number and authorities store everythin…

The degradation comes from waves of austerity politics by right wing governments. These services are expensive and require staff to keep things going. Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend" and end up running more efficiently, rather than having a knock on effect and decr…

> Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend"

There is some weird notion in populace that if we cut the funding, the public services will "get handle of themselves" and become more cost efficient. That's what a reasonable individual would do in tougher times. What happens in reality is that the nepotist core in public services will entrench and be fine or even better off, while the society will be told to suck it up.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#495

Post by generic92034 »

rcbdev wrote: post #249
type0 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They use this book called "Der Process" as a manual

You can really feel that Kafka was an Austrian in his writings.

Is that a correct assignment? Austria-Hungary was a thing back then, but someone born and mostly living in Prague I would not call Austrian today.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#496

Post by hnhg »

pingou wrote: post #202
hnhg wrote: post #104

There is also a brutal and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of ~30% of the current valuation of your worldwide shareholdings (in companies in which you have >1% ownership). I commented on this in more detail in another post a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39786934#39788110 In the author's case, because he is using a holding comp…

There may be something new now: https://winheller.com/blog/en/no-more-immediate-german-exit-...

The issue is with the requirement of a security. Winheller do phrase it carefully as "in their view" a security is not required, but that would have to be agreed with the tax authorities in advance and there are different opinions on how likely this is without a firm legal ruling from the law courts.

(What I find concerning is the attitude of the German tax authorities in their continual attempts to strengthen and increase the scope of this law. They are always trying to broaden it leaving it to individuals and the courts to push back on them.)

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#497

Post by csomar »

data_maan wrote: post #467
resolutebat wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In third world countries, if you're wealthy (by local standards), you can grease the wheels with bribes, or better yet, cheaply outsource tasks to "consultants" who know exactly how to navigate the system and pay the bribes on your behalf, giving you plausible denialability. Need an Indonesian multi-year business visa? $200 to the right "visa consultant" and it's yours in days. As far as I can tell, this is not an op…

Is this an actual thing in Indonesia?

It's more than $200 but yes. Other countries can be cheaper/easier. Indonesia is heated because of Bali.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#498

Post by redrove »

throwaway220033 wrote: post #456

Germany is a cult, not country. The whole system is designed for slavery. Never question anything here, just obey the rules, give up your individuality and live without a soul. The new European way of freedom is not building your own life; you must let government take care of you, and in return you do what they ask. The best part is they think they are free and afraid of their privacy. If freedom is not thinking for…

While I wholeheartedly agree with your points about being forced to remain a wage slave for pennies (in comparison to say the US) and people relying on the government way too much— these are right on the money — I do think casually slipping in “orgies” lessens the validity of your claim in the reader’s mind.

Also I don’t think it’s fair to claim immigrants are being set on fire (with no citations) like it’s just regular business. Horrible things happen everywhere and I doubt Germany is the worst place in the world.

Overall you had me in the first half, then went off the reservation. Still I hold that your first points are valid.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#499

Post by alibarber »

anewhnaccount2 wrote: post #471
usr1106 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am familiar with both German and Finnish bureaucracy. German bureaucracy is (in)famous for paperwork and using faxes. Citizens/residents have no unique identifier (more and more weakened recently) and need to present documentation for everything. If you have no paper birth certificate you are not born... Finland has had much higher digitalization for decades. You have a person number and authorities store everythin…

The degradation comes from waves of austerity politics by right wing governments. These services are expensive and require staff to keep things going. Austerity ideology dictates that there simply must be inefficiency in public services, and cuts are the cure to this disease since this will cause the public sector to "make do and mend" and end up running more efficiently, rather than having a knock on effect and decr…

'Services' are things like education, trains, hospitals.

I don't want my taxes to pay for a desk that I have to go to to show my passport to someone so they can make me an ID card with the same information as the card that the man-with-the-gun-at-the-airport thought was OK enough to let me in to the country with, but the bank won't accept as strong enough proof of ID. Bureaucracy is not a service.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#500

Post by duggan »

amonavis wrote: post #447
niemandhier wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accompanied several friends through the process. My observation was that by simply changing the view on what is happening and extrapolating how to act based on that one can achieve quite a lot. I told people the following: 1. The person dealing with you is not there to help you, they are simply executing an act of governance. Rather than wanting them to help you, try to help them close their tickt. 2. You are the t…

To me this is a weird view of government services. I'm paying taxes to have a system serve me, and to have processes support my life not the other way around. Leaving all emotions out of the equation, the job of the jurisdiction under which I fall is so facilitate my legality so I can pursue a productive and enjoyable life. If I'm paying taxes and I'm expected to pitch in the governmental effort, then that's not wher…

You can deal with the world either how you wish it were, or how it is.

The reality is that bureaucracies are full of humans – and we all know how humans are.

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