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How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

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Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#401

Post by sph »

mdekkers wrote: post #385

I founded a business in Germany, and the tax departments decided to asses me for 2024 to an amount of 100% of my combined 2020-2022 turnover. Instopped trading halfway through 2023, abd there will be no turnover for 2024. I currently have a tax “debt” that is literally more money than the business ever _collected_ over it’s entire existence. It is nearly impossible to find a tax lawyer that is willing to take on the…

I'm sorry to hear that. I do not have any advice to offer, but someone close to me went through a similar ordeal of bureaucratic and fiscal hell in another European country. They lost everything they had to the taxman and its insane rules. There is a great number of people similarly broke or jailed because of how restrictive and anti-business these laws are. I do not see how can one in good conscience defend them as good, or productive for entrepreneurship.

If everything fails, I would suggest to at least make as much noise about this as possible. On social media, local news, etc. Just like a viral post is the only way to get Google support, in these bureaucratic hells an interview from a journalist might open some novel avenues for help.

I am so glad circumstances brought me to the UK, where in comparison company law is child's play, and managing my business and its taxes takes a couple hours a year at most.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#402

Post by qayxc »

throwaway11460 wrote: post #310
qayxc wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Signed, a citizen of an EU state where you can create a company by digitally signing one form and paying the equivalent of $300. You'd be surprised to hear that you can do that in Germany, too. Costs about 25€ (depends on the municipality) and takes about 30min. The blog post was referring to a very specific form of incorporation. There's not just the ones mentioned in there.

So a normal GmbH, which would be the equivalent of what I'm talking about, can be incorporated online for 25 EUR in 30 minutes? I thought that's what the article is about. What's so specific about the form of incorporation they are talking about? A limited liability company is the most basic form of a corporation... Sole proprietorship / self-employment can be started here for around 20 EUR too, but that's not a comp…

> Or does Germany have some other forms of companies that I don't know?

There are 9 forms of companies in Germany, only two of which (GmbH and AG [stock corporation/PLC/...]) require fixed capital and a notary.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#403

Post by microtonal »

elbear wrote: post #396
mdekkers wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. Data to back up your assertion that it’s only Berlin? I can speak for Düsseldorf, which is a total nightmare. Literally everything folks talk about regarding issues in Berlin also happens as a matter of course in Düsseldorf. A friend of mine is high up in the NRW civil servants apparatus and he confirms it’s fucked across the board in NRW.

Do you know the causes for why there's so much bureaucracy? I wonder what the potential solutions are.

The bureaucracy problem is compounded by not wanting to link databases between government organizations and a general resistance to anything digital that involves personal data (except Facebook et al. for some reason), which reduces efficiency a lot.

However, this is understandable given German history.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#404

Post by cess11 »

weinzierl wrote: post #400

As a German I agree with the gist: Germany is overly buerocratic and not startup friendly. When it comes to founding a company the author overcomplicates things, however. This is OK when you want to study the process, or want to become an expert in this and maybe make a business out of it. If you just want a company get started, just buy a ready made one. There are specialized lawyers that always keep a pool of fresh…

I don't know how it works in Germany but where I live one reason to buy an 'off-the-shelf company' is that you can pay out dividends with relatively low tax faster.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#405

Post by Symbiote »

MrJohz wrote: post #264
twixfel wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's less work, it's less work. And it can take months if one of you is not German.

So this is pure anecdata here, but as a foreigner who married a German, it took a while, but it was relatively little work. The biggest issue was that we needed one of my documents (the birth certificate) to have a seal of authenticity from my home country, which then all needed to be translated officially. That took longer than it needed to because we didn't realise it needed to be authenticated and so we got it ret…

Websites promoting weddings in Denmark start out saying birth certificates aren't needed. The marriage certificate is provided in 5 languages too.

Hundreds of non-resident trees marry in Denmark every week.

https://medium.com/@msosacordero/how-to-get-married-in-denma...

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#406

Post by mdekkers »

sph wrote: post #401
mdekkers wrote: post #385

I founded a business in Germany, and the tax departments decided to asses me for 2024 to an amount of 100% of my combined 2020-2022 turnover. Instopped trading halfway through 2023, abd there will be no turnover for 2024. I currently have a tax “debt” that is literally more money than the business ever _collected_ over it’s entire existence. It is nearly impossible to find a tax lawyer that is willing to take on the…

I'm sorry to hear that. I do not have any advice to offer, but someone close to me went through a similar ordeal of bureaucratic and fiscal hell in another European country. They lost everything they had to the taxman and its insane rules. There is a great number of people similarly broke or jailed because of how restrictive and anti-business these laws are. I do not see how can one in good conscience defend them as…

Thabk you for your kind words. I used to live in the UK and had several businesses there, and can confirm your experience.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#407

Post by redrove »

anaidenov wrote: post #122
yau8edq12i wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're opening companies on a daily basis to evade taxes or whatever, I fail to see why you would need the process to be that fast. Because with such short delays, nobody will have actually checked anything, so the only winners are fraudsters, in the end.

A seasoned fraudster or tax evader have all the experience, time, and resources to navigate and exploit the system regardless of the measures in place. On the other hand, an ordinary individual considering starting a new business, perhaps only a few times in their lifetime, may indeed be dissuaded from pursuing this venture. This issue mirrors the inefficacy of anti-money laundering policies, which, while intended to…

Excellently put, I couldn’t agree more!

If you’re an entrepreneur AML will cause you nothing but harm while the rich avoid it through the caribbean, Luxembourg, Monaco, Switzerland, etc.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#408

Post by scurth »

Awesome writeup, i did a similar years ago. One important thing you missed is VBG Berufsgenossenschaft. Mandatory to register within 10 days after the notary. Even as a one person Gmbh you need to register there. Running costs: https://www.on-promise.cloud/en/compendium/01-how-much-does-...

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#409

Post by sph »

khaomungai wrote: post #144

Yes, it's really painful here in Germany. I've heard in Portugal it's pretty easy. Any recommendations what would be the best place to found a company for someone who's living in Germany?

Open it in UK. There are dozens of online businesses that deal with all the overseas paperwork. Otherwise Estonia.

You will still have to pay your personal taxes in Germany, if you reside there.

Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain

#410

Post by Symbiote »

dpeckett wrote: post #219
dataflow wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, so this means you can go to another country just to get married there? There's no requirement that one of you have some kind of tie to the country (working, or resident, etc.)?

Yep the Danes are an entrepreneurial bunch, strict cash for marriage document type deal (but all done very professionally, not some vegas chapel pony show).

The prices look very reasonable for Denmark, where everything is expensive.

I'm sure the local governments know it's a good source of tourist money though, hotels, restaurants and so on.

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