Everything written in this article is true, but there are as usual more nuances to all of these. One of the primary reasons for me to go with a GmbH (and a holding) was the expectation of excess profits that I'd want to reinvest instead of drawing a salary. The other neat aspect of stacking a holding company on top of the operating company is that capital gains are not taxed in the event of a sale. That goes for investing into ETFs for example, but more importantly if the holding company ever sells the operating company then that sale is tax-free for the holding company. The ultimate owner is then able to pay out the proceeds and only be taxed using his personal capital gains tax rate (25%-ish).
How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
391–400 of 1001 posts
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We don't appreciate its meaning anymore, but cash is literally the only anonymous payment method you can have in this lifetime, and people in Germany tend NOT to trust any entity/company/government holding your data for no particular purpose. Exactly. This is the eperience from two dicatorships on German soil in the 20th century of which one ended less than 35 years ago (many of its crimes still have not been prose…
Didn't Germany have 3 dictatorships in the 20th century? East Germany (ended in 1990), Third Reich (ended in 1945), German Monarchy (ended in 1918)
I'm not used to people calling monarchies dictatorships, even though they are in some ways similar. Until 1918, many states in Europe were monarchies.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
I completely agree. I have been living here for 8 years, and recently applied for a permanent settlement permit. My application went into a blackhole for more than 4 months, while my existing permit expired, essentially making me a prisoner here (I can stay and work in Germany but if I travel internationally, I won't be allowed entry back). Meanwhile, my applications for a temporary travel permit were unanswered for…
As far as I know, it's par for the course for immigration in most countries I ever heard of. On the other hand, anyone who heard of consistently nice immigration procedure for normal people (not Messi) should chime in. From a incentive strucutre POV, they lose nothing from false positives (denying entry to someone who would have been fine) as candidates will probably try again anyway, and no one will come after them…
> From a incentive strucutre POV, they lose nothing from false positives
I strongly disagree. If you try to attract skilled labour, such hurdles can keep many of them at bay. Germany can become known as a country that's not worth the fight. I have seen a _lot_ of stories about people giving up and leaving, usually because of immigration office delays, but sometimes because they were worn down by other demands.
It also affects the bottom line as Germany becomes a country businesses avoid, either because it's too much effort to set up the business, or too much effort to attract international talent.
You are right that immigrants are invisible as a voter base, but the cumulative effects of their neglect are significant to the German economy, and to the pensions of people who can vote.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as I know, it's par for the course for immigration in most countries I ever heard of. On the other hand, anyone who heard of consistently nice immigration procedure for normal people (not Messi) should chime in. From a incentive strucutre POV, they lose nothing from false positives (denying entry to someone who would have been fine) as candidates will probably try again anyway, and no one will come after them…
As someone that became a permanent resident and later a citizen of Canada, the process was relatively painless compared to what I read for other countries, and could be tracked along its different steps using a web UI.
Denmark is the same.
The official website says the wait time for permanent residency is "up to 10 months", and searching Reddit suggests 3-6 months is more normal.
Denmark is not particularly welcoming to immigrants, but they do with rules rather than inefficient paperwork.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given the amount of immigrants in Europe in general and in Germany in particular, I don't think they are trying to deter people. Or if they are trying it's not working. The incompetence is not confined to immigration, it's pretty much everywhere. Same goes for France actually.
i wonder how much of the "incompetence" is really just under-staffing, and how much is the public servants being paid to essentially do little/no work.
It plays a major role. That, the increasing number of applicants and inefficient, paper-based bureaucracy are the three major causes, I would say.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other people have already written this, but Berlin is not a good representation for Germany as a whole. It has been known for decades within Germany for having a dysfunctional government structure and administration (due in part to unclear division of responsibilities between districts and the city). Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. The neglicence of the state of Berlin is actuall…
> Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. Data to back up your assertion that it’s only Berlin? I can speak for Düsseldorf, which is a total nightmare. Literally everything folks talk about regarding issues in Berlin also happens as a matter of course in Düsseldorf. A friend of mine is high up in the NRW civil servants apparatus and he confirms it’s fucked across the board in NRW.
Do you know the causes for why there's so much bureaucracy? I wonder what the potential solutions are.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other people have already written this, but Berlin is not a good representation for Germany as a whole. It has been known for decades within Germany for having a dysfunctional government structure and administration (due in part to unclear division of responsibilities between districts and the city). Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. The neglicence of the state of Berlin is actuall…
> Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. Data to back up your assertion that it’s only Berlin? I can speak for Düsseldorf, which is a total nightmare. Literally everything folks talk about regarding issues in Berlin also happens as a matter of course in Düsseldorf. A friend of mine is high up in the NRW civil servants apparatus and he confirms it’s fucked across the board in NRW.
I only cover Berlin, but the relocation consultants I frequently talk to will confirm that it's even worse in other medium to large cities. The Berlin immigration office is doing well given the hand it has been dealt.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm European because of US healthcare, insecurity, inequality, bad food culture, urban planning, and danger from natural and man made disasters, quality and cost of education. Every single one of those things is better in my new European home.
A very good summary. There's also more Nazis in America than in Germany, and more far-right hatred in general.
Same Nazi and far-right hatred phenomenon in Australia. It's a global thing.
Having British roots attracts pressure from the locals. Ironically enough, given the countries' origin.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#399I document German bureaucracy for a living,[0] and everything is like that. Every life event - immigrating, getting a job, getting married, having a child, buying a car - is mired in slow, paper-based bureaucracy. It is a constant, significant impediment to life in the country. Just last week, I was telling people that the best way to get married in Germany is to get married in Denmark. I cannot overstate how terribl…
Other people have already written this, but Berlin is not a good representation for Germany as a whole. It has been known for decades within Germany for having a dysfunctional government structure and administration (due in part to unclear division of responsibilities between districts and the city). Elsewhere in Germany, bureaucracy tends to be tedious but functional. The neglicence of the state of Berlin is actuall…
We lived in Tübingen/BW and it the bureaucracy was dysfunctional there as well.
Re: How to found a company in Germany: 14 "easy" steps and lots of pain
#400As a German I agree with the gist: Germany is overly buerocratic and not startup friendly.
When it comes to founding a company the author overcomplicates things, however. This is OK when you want to study the process, or want to become an expert in this and maybe make a business out of it.
If you just want a company get started, just buy a ready made one. There are specialized lawyers that always keep a pool of freshly founded companies to sell - exactly for that purpose. These companies are brand new, usually just a couple of weeks old and have no significant history. They have generic names and you can decide on a proper name later.
If you don't have anyone to advise you and insist finding a suitable lawyer on your own: Go to Germany's central company register (Handelsregister) and research startups in your field. The lawyers and law firms specialized in selling new companies will stick out pretty quickly to you.