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Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

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Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#151

Post by josephcsible »

withinrafael wrote: post #30

There are plenty of reasons to skewer Microsoft, but this isn't one of them. Microsoft isn't blocking all customization apps here, of course. They're blocking known [1][2] unreliable, poorly written, high crash rate software that is extremely sensitive to OS changes, hotfixes, and/or upgrades due to the nature of the software (e.g. hooking functions, patching memory, etc). The block is geared towards a specific revis…

Is there any evidence that the software is actually poorly written? Isn't the only reason they use undocumented/unstable hacks that Microsoft refuses to provide a documented or stable way of doing what they want to do?

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#152

Post by true_religion »

lolc wrote: post #113
zelphirkalt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, how many GNU/Linux desktop environments allow you to do that easily, while being developed by a handful of people, while MS has probably hordes of people working on the UI of Windows. They just don't seem to get it or have complelety incapable UI/UX designers or something.

Every configuration option is a support burden. I say tihs as a KDE user who installed Gnome for the parents.

I get that but if so many people want it then why isn’t the improvement to their lives with the additional support cost?

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#153

Post by true_religion »

jiggawatts wrote: post #52
Springtime wrote: post #39

Microsoft still haven't implemented a native vertical taskbar after all the years of it being in the top voted[1] request (part of the request to move to any side of the screen) and the fact it's been part of Windows for like 15 years. It's a dealbreaker tbh. Third-party tools that restored the W10 taskbar in W11 allowed users to continue having a taskbar that's usable for them yet the latest W11 betas show they're r…

It's because the Windows 11 UI was designed by people who've never used anything other that an Apple Mac. Yes, Microsoft hires employees with zero Windows experience to design their operating system. That's why the Windows 11 taskbar has the icons centred -- because Apple OSX does too. That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either. Etc...

Designers don’t make things based on their experience with the product.

They do research, evaluate multiple variations, get buy in from stakeholders and then AB test the final result.

It’s definitely not as simple as let’s do this because I saw it somewhere before.

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#154

Post by josephcsible »

MikusR wrote: post #38
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #2

Extract from Adventures in application compatibility: The case of the jump into the middle of an instruction from nowhere by Raymond Chen. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20230324-00/?p=10... > What happened is that we recently made changes to this internal function, and apparently those changes were enough to cause the patcher to go haywire. This is unfortunately a regular occurrence: Whenever a new build…

Even the main picture in the article shows the error message that clearly states: "A new version might be available"

If they're blocking these programs by the name of the .exe file, then wouldn't a new version still be blocked?

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#155

Post by commoner »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #141
marginalia_nu wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's so much Linux getting better as Windows getting worse. Like even beyond having ads in the start menu and having the default browser open up to a gigantic chumbox, a lot of the things Linux was historically getting crap for like the inconsistent UI elements; that stuff is so much worse on Windows now. Running KDE apps in Gnome or vice versa looks significantly more visually consistent than running W…

Go boot up and use a vm with kde3 then kde4 then kde5 then kde6 and i think you will rescind your claim. Its night and day better over time. I suspect even gnome has improved but i dont have the experience with it so i cant authoritatively comment.

Both KDE and GNOME have improved dramatically over the years in stability and user-friendliness. The leap from KDE Plasma 5 to 6 was massive and brought proper DPI scaling to all displays for both X11 and Wayland applications, on par with what Windows offers.

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#156

Post by bitwize »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #96
Springtime wrote: post #39

Microsoft still haven't implemented a native vertical taskbar after all the years of it being in the top voted[1] request (part of the request to move to any side of the screen) and the fact it's been part of Windows for like 15 years. It's a dealbreaker tbh. Third-party tools that restored the W10 taskbar in W11 allowed users to continue having a taskbar that's usable for them yet the latest W11 betas show they're r…

Funny, how many GNU/Linux desktop environments allow you to do that easily, while being developed by a handful of people, while MS has probably hordes of people working on the UI of Windows. They just don't seem to get it or have complelety incapable UI/UX designers or something.

It's because Microsoft has OKRs to hit that have nothing to do with UI customizability or even giving users what they want.

I realized this in the 90s. Windows 9x, theoretically, should never have existed. I knew this because a DOS subsystem with great speed and compatibility, DOSEMU, existed for Linux. You could play Doom with sound at full speed in DOSEMU on contemporary Pentium hardware. If the open source community could do that, Microsoft, the developers of DOS, could develop a DOS layer for Windows NT that was much better than the sluggish, feature-incomplete layer they did ship. But they didn't prioritize the effort it would take to do so, especially since dividing the Win32 ecosystem into 9x, NT workstation and NT server allowed binning of different Windows versions at different price points.

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#157

Post by maldie »

Springtime wrote: post #39

Microsoft still haven't implemented a native vertical taskbar after all the years of it being in the top voted[1] request (part of the request to move to any side of the screen) and the fact it's been part of Windows for like 15 years. It's a dealbreaker tbh. Third-party tools that restored the W10 taskbar in W11 allowed users to continue having a taskbar that's usable for them yet the latest W11 betas show they're r…

This is complete insanity that vertical task bar is still not implemented, pretty much what OS has to do - manage memory, manage processes/threads, manage windows to enable smooth UX with multiple programs. It more and more fails on the last one. Seems the policies have changed to drop support for everything that is used for example less than 1% of users, (just neglecting 10 million users, costing likely billions $ time and sweat for those users, nbd). Even if it would cost MS like tow part time developers time/money.

It is such a neccessary multitasking functionality on work environments that I'm quite lost when Win 10 support ends and the alternative taskbar tools do not work reliably then. Small hope that Windows 12 or whatever comes next would be the better one.

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#158

Post by userbinator »

Log_out_ wrote: post #138
userbinator wrote: post #87

It's worth reminding yourself that there are people at MS actively working to make your lives worse. I'm curious how they feel about implementing such things --- or, when they initially decided to come up with the idea of rewriting the taskbar and removing a bunch of features, was there no opposition from the employees who clearly use Windows themselves? No power users work at MS? I wonder how long it'll be before so…

Wouldn't wonder if there is a ms internal bullshit free win distro.

I doubt it, based on what some MS employees have commented here in the past.

Re: Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2

#159

Post by jiggawatts »

true_religion wrote: post #153
jiggawatts wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the Windows 11 UI was designed by people who've never used anything other that an Apple Mac. Yes, Microsoft hires employees with zero Windows experience to design their operating system. That's why the Windows 11 taskbar has the icons centred -- because Apple OSX does too. That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either. Etc...

Designers don’t make things based on their experience with the product. They do research, evaluate multiple variations, get buy in from stakeholders and then AB test the final result. It’s definitely not as simple as let’s do this because I saw it somewhere before.

Icons in the middle of a task bar is objectively, measurably less user-friendly than left aligned icons.

With the standard Windows layout users can develop “muscle memory”, especially for the bottom left corner of the screen — which is very easy to hit with a mouse because the edges of the screen “trap” the cursor.

With middle aligned icons, every new app shifts the existing icons.

Also there is no icon in an easy to hit location.

Windows 11 has some other design elements that broke Microsoft’s own integrations. As a random example: “Open with VS Code” and “Terminal here” are hidden submenus now.

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