Do loud pipes save lives? (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#41

Post by jrwoodruff » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:10 PM UTC

rudedogg wrote: post #24

supernova87a wrote: post #14

If they really did save lives, you would think the highway patrol officers who rely on their bikes for their safety and entire professional existence would be equipped with them. No, this is just obnoxious leisure bikers wanting to justify their unnecessary noise they inflict on the rest of us.

Most police bikes I see in the US are Harleys, I don't think they're buying anything out of practicality. If they were, you'd see a lot more BMW police motorcycles.

Michigan State Police somewhat controversially switched to BMW motorcycles in 2012, and actually disbanded the motorcycle unit for awhile because of safety issues. Apparently it's returning this year, still using the BMWs.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2024/02/15/m...

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#42

Post by matsemann » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:14 PM UTC

> Researchers found that even the loudest pipes are very hard to hear in a modern car.

Somewhat related, but I think it's so weird all the hate cyclists listening to music get. I don't do it myself, but I soo often read online motorists being angry on some cyclist with their airpod in or something. But even then, a cyclist is probably much more aware of their surroundings. If that's the standard that should be applied, drivers should be mandated to drive with their windows rolled down and no music as well..

Also, this shows how useless a small bell is on a cycle to alert drivers. Hence why have a 115 dB AirZound attached to my bike as well. Sure gets their attention when they think their negligence was about to get them t-boned by a truck.

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#43

Post by sneak » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:15 PM UTC

2024throwaway wrote: post #22

gchamonlive wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one, very narrow way of viewing it. Another would be that cars lack the necessary visibility to be safe. No one in their right mind would advocate to banning cars. Instead, sensors could be employed to make up for the lack of visibility in cars. This should maybe be the topic of discussion, to introduce these types of safety sensors as essential. ABS breaks weren't the norm a few decades ago, so why not start…

I advocate for banning cars.

[flagged]

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#44

Post by matsemann » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:17 PM UTC

RedShift1 wrote: post #37

2024throwaway wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for assuming there are no other possible alternatives.

By car: 30 mins. Public transport: 1 hour 30 mins. I'm not wasting 2 extra hours each day.

It's not like society without cars would be the exact same just without cars. People would live closer to where they need to be. It would be more public transport. More 15-minute cities etc.

It's a bit dishonest to argue for continued car dominance just because it's already status quo.

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#45

Post by thereisnospork » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:18 PM UTC

>With the motorcycles’ front wheel next to the car’s rear wheel, one of the motorcycles can be heard inside the car and three motorcycles can almost be heard but, “unfortunately it is too late to be safe.”

These sound like very quiet cars[0] or not very loud motorcycles. Maybe my anecdata is flawed but I'm pretty sure I can make out motorcycles (and loud cars) on throttle driving an entirely different road, 100's of ft away when I'm driving, nevermind a straight piped harley 2 car lengths behind.

[0] I don't drive a new enough vehicle to attest to modern NVH isolation, but if the driver of a car truely can't hear a ~105 db exhaust noise (~comparable volume to say a horn, or the scream of someone being run over) the problem might lie with the car.

edit: for comparison, a car horn is apparently ~110-115db vs an allegedly 105db motorcycle that was tested. (5-10db is a lot more than it looks, but that should be the ~equivalent of hearing a horn honk from ~100ft away @-6dB/100ft)

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#46

Post by markbnj » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:18 PM UTC

phildenhoff wrote: post #3

Anecdotally, anyone who rides will you tell you this. It doesn’t matter how high your high viz vest is, or how loudly you rev your bike, someone will blindly cut you off and not realise you’re there until it’s way too late. I’m glad to see the data to back that up. Maybe now my fellow riders can agree that their motorbikes are a bit too damn loud, and tone it down.

Agree with you about loud pipes, but I am not sure why you had to throw high-vis clothing in there, unless the point is simply not to rely on any one advantage and to assume every driver is going to try to kill you. I do and heartily encourage every other rider to do as well. There is data to argue in favor of high vis clothing, and honestly given that the only downside to it is a perception of personal style I don't get why every rider isn't wearing it.

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#47

Post by squarefoot » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:20 PM UTC

I have been a 100% motorcycle rider (that is, no cars) for roughly 38 years until my last accident ended it all, but no, I don't regret anything of it: riding bikes is simply a wonderful experience. In my youngest years I would love having a loud pipe, and I had a moderately loud one, until the day they stole my muffler in the school parking lot and that moderately loud turned into an absolute mess. Anyway, having been young and full of testosterone, I perfectly understand why some people want loud motorcycles (and cars). To me it all boils down to ancient instincts: the loudest beast is the one who marks the larger territory, and is perceived as the most powerful one, that is, the one who collects more females. This can be understandable in youngsters, not so much in grown ups.

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#48

Post by zdragnar » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:20 PM UTC

magicalhippo wrote: post #28

growse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes are perfectly safe. It's car drivers who aren't.

As a driver, the only times I've had near-accidents with bikes have been when they came up on me unexpectedly. Like left side shoulder when I'm stuck in traffic in the left lane. I only got my license a few years ago, public transport works quite well here in Norway, seems I haven't yet learned all the sneaky ways bike riders can surprise ya. That said, I see idiots behind the wheel causing near crashes several times…

I'm not saying car drivers are better or worse (there's plenty of both on average), but you need to watch out for different things when around bikes.

Riding through red lights without stopping or yielding to traffic turning right, riding on sidewalks forcing pedestrians out of their way, zipping back and forth between the sidewalk and road, changing lanes without signaling and assuming the cars will read their minds and slow down for them are all things I saw in my few years living in a bigger city with lots of bicyclists.

Never got into an accident with one, but I was a passenger in a car that nearly hit one. She either had psychological problems, or was intentionally trying to get an insurance payout, because she absolutely tried to get hit, then freaked out on the driver when he managed to slow down in time.

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#49

Post by RedShift1 » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:21 PM UTC

matsemann wrote: post #44

RedShift1 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By car: 30 mins. Public transport: 1 hour 30 mins. I'm not wasting 2 extra hours each day.

It's not like society without cars would be the exact same just without cars. People would live closer to where they need to be. It would be more public transport. More 15-minute cities etc. It's a bit dishonest to argue for continued car dominance just because it's already status quo.

Ok, but that's not the world we live in right now. Where my job is, is also in a quite boring area, almost rural. I don't want to move there.

Re: Do loud pipes save lives? (2021)

#50

Post by yongjik » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 9:23 PM UTC

growse wrote: post #7

whimsicalism wrote: post #5

If motorcycles require loud pipes to be safe, they should probably be banned altogether - but I don't really think it is necessary to have loud pipes.

Bikes are perfectly safe. It's car drivers who aren't.

In the days of Wright Brothers, it would have been perfectly safe to take off and fly your airplane in any direction as long as you can see where you are, but it's obviously no longer safe these days, and there are strict rules about where you are allowed and who you have to contact at which locations.

"What is safe" obviously depends on who else are on the road.