Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification • Hacker News Board

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#21

Post by Xudong » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 6:30 PM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #16

You might want to look into integrating DebateSum or OpenDebateEvidence (OpenCaseList) into this tool as sources of evidence. They are uniquely good for these sorts of tasks: https://huggingface.co/datasets/Hellisotherpeople/DebateSum https://huggingface.co/datasets/Yusuf5/OpenCaselist

Hi Der_Einzige, thanks for pointing out these two great datasets! We are currently working on including customized evidence sources internally and will definitely consider these two datasets in the future version of this open-source project.

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#22

Post by Xudong » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 6:41 PM UTC

dscottboggs wrote: post #3

That seems like something unlikely to do well at being automated, and not that at least current-gen ai is capable of. Does it...work?

Hi there, I agree that fact-checking is not something that current generative AI models can directly solve. Therefore, we decompose this complex into five simpler steps, which current techniques can better solve. Please refer to https://github.com/Libr-AI/OpenFactVerification?tab=readme-o... for more details.

However, errors can always occur. We try to help users in an interpretable and transparent way by showing all retrieved evidence and the rationale behind each assessment. We hope this could at least help people when dealing with such problems.

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#23

Post by xyst » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 6:46 PM UTC

axegon_ wrote: post #17

Overall great idea though, I'll be definitely checking it back in the future. A few things that hit me out of the box: * The idea behind using Serper is great, however it would be cool if other search engines/data sources can be used instead, ie. Kagi or some private search engine/data. Reason for the latter: there are tons of people who are sourcing all sorts of information which will not immediately show up on goog…

I fully expect some sort of enshittification of openai at some point.

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#24

Post by pelasaco » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 6:53 PM UTC

eeue56 wrote: post #19

Interesting. In the Nordics, we have a couple of sites dedicated to fact checking news stories, done by real people. I think these kinds of automated tools can be helpful too, but needs to be tied to reliable sources. This became pretty apparent to me with the tech news coverage of xz, too. Lots of accidental (or sometimes intentional?) misinformation being spread in news articles. I wrote about it a bit[0], it was p…

> In the Nordics, we have a couple of sites dedicated to fact checking news stories, done by real people.

We have it everywhere. The problem is however well-known: Human bias, political engagement from the fact checkers, etc.. AI (without any kind of lock, political bias built-in etc) could be the real deal, but because it may be not political correct, it will never happen.

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#25

Post by Xudong » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 6:54 PM UTC

rjb7731 wrote: post #7

Isn't this similar to the Deepmind paper on long form factuality posted a few days ago? https://arxiv.org/abs/2403.18802 https://github.com/google-deepmind/long-form-factuality/tree...

Yes, they are similar. Actually, our initial paper was presented around five months ago (https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.09000). Unfortunately, our paper isn't cited by the DeepMind paper, which you may see this discussion as an example: https://x.com/gregd_nlp/status/1773453723655696431

Compared with our initial version, we have mainly focused on its efficiency, with a 10X faster checking process without decreasing accuracy.

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#26

Post by szszrk » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 6:58 PM UTC

dscottboggs wrote: post #3

That seems like something unlikely to do well at being automated, and not that at least current-gen ai is capable of. Does it...work?

I just tried similar queries as they show on their screenshots with Kagi. Basically asked it the exact same question.

While it answered a general "yes" when the more precise answer was "no", the motivation in the answer was perfectly on point and exactly the same things.

As a general LLM for regular user fastGPT (their llm service) is in my opinion "meh" (lacks conversations for instance). But it's really impressive that it contains VERY recent data (like news and articles from last few days) and always provides great references.

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#27

Post by Xudong » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 7:08 PM UTC

eeue56 wrote: post #19

Interesting. In the Nordics, we have a couple of sites dedicated to fact checking news stories, done by real people. I think these kinds of automated tools can be helpful too, but needs to be tied to reliable sources. This became pretty apparent to me with the tech news coverage of xz, too. Lots of accidental (or sometimes intentional?) misinformation being spread in news articles. I wrote about it a bit[0], it was p…

I wholeheartedly agree on the necessity of linking fact-checking tools to credible sources. Currently, our team's expertise lies primarily in AI, and we find ourselves at a disadvantage when it comes to pinpointing authoritative sources. Acknowledging the challenges posed by the rapid spread of misinformation, as highlighted by recent studies, we developed this prototype to assist in information verification. We recognize the value of collaboration in enhancing our tool's effectiveness and invite those experienced in evaluating sources to join our effort. If our project interests you and you're willing to contribute, please don't hesitate to reach out. We're eager to collaborate and make a positive impact together.

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#28

Post by Xudong » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 7:10 PM UTC

chamomeal wrote: post #4

Very cool! I’ve toyed with an idea like this for a while. The scraping is a cool extra feature, but tbh just breaking down text into verifiable claims and setting up the logic tokens is way cooler. I imagine somebody feeding a live presidential debate into this. Could be a great tool for fact checking

ahah thanks!

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#29

Post by Xudong » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 7:17 PM UTC

vinni2 wrote: post #15

btbuildem wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the LLMs are swappable -- today the proprietary ones are very powerful and accessible, but the landscape may yet change.

Well but they don’t mention that it is clickbait to call it open source fact checking tool which needs LLMs to do everything. Also code is not designed to easily swap with a free locally running LLM.

I apologize for any confusion caused earlier. The core components have been defined separately (https://github.com/Libr-AI/OpenFactVerification/tree/main/fa...) to make customization easier. We understand that switching between different LLMs isn't particularly easy in the current version. However, we will be adding these features in future versions. You are most welcome to collaborate with us and contribute to this project!

Re: Loki: An open-source tool for fact verification

#30

Post by siffland » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 7:30 PM UTC

When I saw Loki as the name, I instantly thought of Grafana Loki for logging. I click on the GitHub and get Libr-AI and OpenFactVerification.

I am not commenting on the actual software and I know names are hard and often overlap, but with something as popular as Loki already used for logging I think it might get confusing.