German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice • Hacker News Board

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#311

Post by Arainach » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 8:38 PM UTC

ctrw wrote: post #287

7bit wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software can only ever be mature for a period of time. Technology advances, work practices change, and your software should adapt to it. Imagine text editing stopped at Notepad, or image editing at Photoshop 1. Also, your second paragraph leaks of Americanism and undoubtedly, people are happier and healthier with stable jobs.

And consumers are better off when we don't keep the candle stick maker employed in the led factory.

Not only does that metaphor not hold up (is UX obsolete in your opinion?), it's absolutely false.

This is software after all - surely you're aware how throwing out the old solution and trying to build a "better" one results in a long slog of making the same mistakes the old team/product made and fixed (but could have warned you about if they were kept around).

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#312

Post by Arainach » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 8:40 PM UTC

mo_42 wrote: post #305

ctrw wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just copy office 97 and can't go wrong with it. The problem with having UX people on a team is that they need to jusity their existence which they do by change for changes sake. I've yet to meet anyone who appreciates ms office UX changes that happen every 5 years and move everything around.

I fully agreee. It's similar to older versions of Visual Studio. On the other hand, I'm annoyed by the omnipresent File, Edit, View, ... stuff in the menu bar. Even if those functions make no sense for a given application. And then I have to open several brittle layers there to reach a certain function. I think UI research can do better. And by that I don't mean stashing everything into a hamburger menu.

Research such as.....

* Looking at the context of what the user is doing and dynamically showing options

* Using those dynamic interactions to surface lesser-known but relevant features that were previously hidden deep in menus along with hundreds of other features

* Adding a search bar for the user to explain what they're doing or find something they know the name of

....oh, wait, you just invented the Ribbon.

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#313

Post by chuckadams » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 9:29 PM UTC

maxcoder4 wrote: post #139

xattt wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word and Excel, like Photoshop, are dominant because of their maturity as well as the muscle memory of their users. People were pissed 18 years ago when the Office ribbon was implemented because it broke their workflow. MS might have gussied it up now, but they haven’t dared to reinvent it since.

>People were pissed 18 years ago when the Office ribbon was implemented Wow, now I feel old more than any "movie X was released Y years ago" factoid could make me feel.

I’m old enough that any reference after 2000 doesn’t even make me feel old, it’s damn near recent memory.

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#314

Post by wolverine876 » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 10:56 PM UTC

jolmg wrote: post #283

wolverine876 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I should have framed the issue more carefully: Are they as efficient as Windows' Active Directory and Group Policy? It's a bit of a hard-to-define question, and not many people have the experience to answer it. I've seen plenty of deployment and configuration management tools that definitely fit the definition - those are easy to make - but were inefficient for one reason or another; that's the hard part. One ma…

> but were inefficient for one reason or another; that's the hard part. The efficiency of such tools is mostly just a matter of familiarity. It's like asking what programming language is most efficient to do e.g. web development. There may be arguments for X or Y language depending on the specifics of what you're going to do and what you value, but ultimately the most important factor that determines whether it feels…

> The efficiency of such tools is mostly just a matter of familiarity.

That is just not true. Think of making that statement about any software - is the efficiency of all software roughly equal?

> I struggle to think of them needing to be aware of one another.

IT administrators have an order of magnitude less time than you seem to imagine, and an order of magnitude more systems and subsystems and components to manage than you imagine: It's not that they can't copy files and run commands, it's that they don't have time to learn to do that, manage it (including documenting procedures, changes, etc.), and implementing it for every action for every application on every system. It's not like your personal computers - the magnitude makes it a different thing entirely.

The application needs to provide a management component that integrates with the admin's system management tool, just like your new railcar needs to integrate with the train tracks. Now if your railcar is really valuable, the train company might adapt it themselves, and IT admins do that, but it's a real cost. (OK, the railcar analogy is a bit of an exaggeration, but not as much as you think.)

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#315

Post by wolverine876 » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 10:58 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #292

wolverine876 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In relative values it's worse than 100 years ago Relative to what? 1926 was after WWI devestated Europe and I think Germany would have been in very bad shape from the Versailles Treaty.

Just one example: China has been the wealthiest country in the world except for the 19th and 20th centuries (and maybe the very few centuries before those,) when countries from Europe and the USA colonized it, then Japan. It's still recovering but economically is in the same league as Europe. Post world war Europe and Germany were still better off than China. The proof is that Germany took very few years to recover,…

> China ... economically is in the same league as Europe.

Not at all; on a per capita level Europeans are far richer and more productive.

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#316

Post by tremon » Fri, Apr 05, 2024, 11:10 PM UTC

Ziggy_Zaggy wrote: post #205

xw38011 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What features in Office are essential for those users that you don't get from Google? Backward compatibility with existing documents that are already in Word. Also, for those knowledge workers who aren’t in tech, the high likelihood that the recipient can open the document with correct formatting.

...why not just print to PDF then since all browswer support PDF?

...since then they will send you back a scan of a printed-out copy of said PDF in which they scribbled their comments and modifications with pen and marker?

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#317

Post by beefnugs » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 4:15 AM UTC

Microsoft is hilarious : We have created codeQL, the perfect solution to search all of source code in the world for known vulnerabilities at a scale very few can even comprehend.... but first it says you dont have candy crush installed, we are going to go ahead and install that for you and even pop up an unskippable ad taking up your entire screen every time mandatory windows updates completes, YOU ARE WELCOME

A few of the smartest people in the world get their reputation stomped into nothing by the sleeziest pieces of shit management that has ever existed

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#318

Post by Semaphor » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 4:57 AM UTC

PawgerZ wrote: post #302

Semaphor wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use outlook for work mails and tried new outlook for a short while. It’s like an alpha version, it’s not even close to feature parity, a pure showcase for a new design. If it ever becomes the only version, I’m switching to thunderbird.

I used the default Mail Microsoft Store app for the past 2 years at work. The past 6 months, it's been telling me to move to Outlook desktop app. A couple weeks ago, it wouldn't allow me to use the Microsoft Store app anymore, so I installed the desktop version, tried to login, and got an error message that my account would only work on the webapp. Set up Thunderbird on my work desktop that day, and haven't looked ba…

You inspired me, decided to set up Thunderbird and give it a week or so to see how it feels ;)

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#319

Post by smackeyacky » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 5:51 AM UTC

Ringz wrote: post #272

smackeyacky wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If some kind soul wants to point to an email client that has a capability like Outlook rules I'm dying to know about it. I have a mate whose business is entirely based on a big set of Outlook rules to do processing and there doesn't seem to be any good alternative. Outlook online doesn't seem to have any rule capability and can't talk to 3rd party email servers.

You don't need an e-mail program for this if you are ready to work with Imapfilter: https://github.com/lefcha/imapfilter

Awesome thank you will look into that

Re: German state ditches Microsoft for Linux and LibreOffice

#320

Post by nullindividual » Sat, Apr 06, 2024, 3:23 PM UTC

breadwinner wrote: post #72

nullindividual wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What improvements have been made in the last 10 years in Outlook and Word? Microsoft Search makes it much easier to find stuff. Word got near real-time co-editing (or perhaps that was closer to 11 years ago) and later ( Lots of other improvements in Excel and PowerPoint, data access/visualization, various presenter modes, and then you've got that AI stuff all mixed in.

Microsoft Search? Where is that exactly? Search is the biggest weak point of Microsoft products. Try finding anything in Teams. Now try the Search box at the bottom of Hacker News. See the difference? Microsoft's revenue from Office was $211B in 2023. That's almost a quarter of a TRILLION dollars in annual revenue. And for that you got what? A presenter mode and data access? Imagine if that revenue was split between…

If you're unaware of what features/functionality are part of the M365 suite, why are you commenting that it is stagnant?

It seems like you're discussing a subject you're objectively unfamiliar with. And no, of course the couple things I mentioned aren't all that's happened in the M365/M365 Apps space. They're what came to top of mind. It doesn't mean they're the biggest or best features.