Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#1

Post by kefs » Fri, May 18, 2012, 10:12 PM UTC

Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers
blogs.msdn.com

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#2

Post by yoblin » Fri, May 18, 2012, 11:31 PM UTC

One upside of this is that it looks like they're really pushing the one-click installs. It isn't apt or yum, but it's certainly better than what Windows has now..

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#3

Post by eslaught » Fri, May 18, 2012, 11:57 PM UTC

"While it is possible to hide or obfuscate calls to APIs that are not included in the SDK, this is still a violation of customer expectations and Store policy."

Wait, does the platform not include a sandbox to make sure this doesn't happen? What "security" can you expect to get out of such a platform?

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#4

Post by riffraff » Sat, May 19, 2012, 12:12 AM UTC

eslaught wrote: post #3

"While it is possible to hide or obfuscate calls to APIs that are not included in the SDK, this is still a violation of customer expectations and Store policy." Wait, does the platform not include a sandbox to make sure this doesn't happen? What "security" can you expect to get out of such a platform?

isn't it the same that happens on iOS ?

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#5

Post by rbanffy » Sat, May 19, 2012, 12:31 AM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #4

eslaught wrote: post #3

"While it is possible to hide or obfuscate calls to APIs that are not included in the SDK, this is still a violation of customer expectations and Store policy." Wait, does the platform not include a sandbox to make sure this doesn't happen? What "security" can you expect to get out of such a platform?

isn't it the same that happens on iOS ?

Doesn't look like that: http://www.apple.com/iphone/business/docs/iOS_Security_Mar12...

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#6

Post by nemeth » Sat, May 19, 2012, 12:41 AM UTC

eslaught wrote: post #3

"While it is possible to hide or obfuscate calls to APIs that are not included in the SDK, this is still a violation of customer expectations and Store policy." Wait, does the platform not include a sandbox to make sure this doesn't happen? What "security" can you expect to get out of such a platform?

Windows 8 Metro apps can be written in real C++. How could they sandbox a custom C++ app? There's no virtual machine to do it.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh46504...

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#7

Post by TazeTSchnitzel » Sat, May 19, 2012, 1:04 AM UTC

Apps can only access files with the same file type association?

What about generic text editors? SSH clients? :/

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#8

Post by barrkel » Sat, May 19, 2012, 1:08 AM UTC

nemeth wrote: post #6

eslaught wrote: post #3

"While it is possible to hide or obfuscate calls to APIs that are not included in the SDK, this is still a violation of customer expectations and Store policy." Wait, does the platform not include a sandbox to make sure this doesn't happen? What "security" can you expect to get out of such a platform?

Windows 8 Metro apps can be written in real C++. How could they sandbox a custom C++ app? There's no virtual machine to do it. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh46504...

You don't need a virtual machine to sandbox C++; or rather, there's already a virtual machine in action, in the form of virtual memory and CPU privilege levels. The only way C++ (or any other native language) has to access to the outside its world is through calls to the kernel. Without direct file I/O APIs, options are even more limited (e.g. you can't easily write your own DLL loader).

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#9

Post by drivebyacct2 » Sat, May 19, 2012, 1:25 AM UTC

nemeth wrote: post #6

eslaught wrote: post #3

"While it is possible to hide or obfuscate calls to APIs that are not included in the SDK, this is still a violation of customer expectations and Store policy." Wait, does the platform not include a sandbox to make sure this doesn't happen? What "security" can you expect to get out of such a platform?

Windows 8 Metro apps can be written in real C++. How could they sandbox a custom C++ app? There's no virtual machine to do it. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh46504...

It's C++/CX. It's not just "real C++".

Re: Microsoft unveils sandbox boundaries for Windows 8/Metro developers

#10

Post by msftguy » Sat, May 19, 2012, 2:04 AM UTC

nemeth wrote: post #6

eslaught wrote: post #3

"While it is possible to hide or obfuscate calls to APIs that are not included in the SDK, this is still a violation of customer expectations and Store policy." Wait, does the platform not include a sandbox to make sure this doesn't happen? What "security" can you expect to get out of such a platform?

Windows 8 Metro apps can be written in real C++. How could they sandbox a custom C++ app? There's no virtual machine to do it. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh46504...

OS X/iOS use a 'sandbox' driver that utilizes TrustedBSD MAC infrastructure ( https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwi... ). Basically, most system calls can be verified against one or more policy modules, and blocked if non-compliant. Not really possible with Windows and its bajillion of syscalls (1000 in win32k alone afair)